Amplifying Queer Narratives in Education: Danielle's Advocacy

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for LGBTQIA plus teachers, administrators and anyone who works in academia to share their stories. Hi, my name is Brian Stanton, a queer theater educator in San Antonio, texas. Each week, I bring you stories from around the world centered on the experiences of LGBTQIA folks in academia. Thank you for joining me on this journey and enjoy Teaching While Queer. Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, brian Stanton. Today, I have the privilege of speaking with Danielle. Hi, danielle, how are you doing?

Hi, I'm doing excellent. Thank you so much for having me on this piece of program.

Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. So, before we get started, we were having this pre-show talk and you had mentioned that you did not want to disclose your sexual orientation, and I think disclosure is such a big thing right now because just the environment of education can be really scary at times. So can you talk a little bit about your tasks and the things that you do to make sure that you are always feeling safe in your workplace?

Oh yeah, that's a good question and a great topic. I'm also part of different organizations like SS County LGBTQI committee. I do a lot of volunteer work in New Jersey and for NJA. So, yeah, it's a topic we talk about. A lot of new teachers that are coming in and it's just related to the environment in terms of a lot of the kids come from different cultures, come from different backgrounds and especially with families and parents and that sort of thing. I know it's been kind of a heavy topic, especially what's going on in Florida, so I was just there recently. But in terms of how the classroom is as a setting in my classroom at the school, it's open to everybody. I have a safe space, posters like all over my wall. In terms of just equality, the content and as a filmmaking, digital media teacher, I show a lot of LGBTQI content. I have students that are as well in the classroom, so I make that welcoming for the students because I always feel like as a teacher, they're the kind of the stars of the whole classroom and you're like they're being a service as a teacher. So I try my best to kind of just be a person advocate for them versus the other.

Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's so interesting because I think I've seen a meme come up the last couple of years that pride is for everyone, including those who may still be in the closet and I've talked about this on a couple of episodes because the wonderful Dr Lulu mentioned this. But the idea of inviting in, you don't have to share your story with everybody. You get to choose who you share your story with, and so I think that it's such an important time because I think representation can look like lots of things. It can look like the person who has a bunch of rainbow flags and is very loud and proud, like myself. Or it could look like being someone who represents the community in a subtle way and is there supporting students regardless and doesn't feel the need to necessarily fly out of the closet, if that makes sense. So thank you for that and thank you for the just the interesting take on that. So let's dive a little bit back, let's take a trip back in time. What was it like for you as a queer student?

Yeah, oh my gosh, this is like way back because I'm 38, I'm gonna be 39 in October. So if I kind of I was a very shy student, like growing up and everything like, I had a very small pool of friends. I lived in a pretty much predominantly white community in Oakland, jersey, really small town, and yeah, and it was just you know, with pretty much in terms of the population, it was like just me and my family. One had like a couple of you know, minority families living in Oakland at the time. There's a lot more diverse now. So, yeah, you know, I was going through a lot of things like just kind of feeling like, you know, as a loner in my own. You know, during that time I was kind of like you know, I was very much into comic books, drawing illustrations. So I did a comic book called the Perfect Life cartoon about this character moving from, like Jersey to, you know, california. And yeah, I just had a lot of just you know, just you know aspirations, just dreams of like going out there and the West Coast ended up doing that. But, you know, in terms of you know, getting involved in different things or activities, I didn't, you know, my small group of friends really were very welcoming to me and I still are. I'm still friends with some of the folks that I knew Rebecca Renovitz, who's like my you know childhood friend from like how many years now but you know terms versus how it is, you know, now is much different. I mean in terms of LGBTQ. They didn't even have a GSA, I mean at that time. So it was kind of like and it was such so many like anti you know LGBTQ type of thing. Church in terms of that because you know this was my family very all broke, you know, in the church and that sort of thing. So you kind of definitely feel like isolation, especially with that. But when I went out to college in San Francisco which you know, I went out to school for animation, visual effects, I mean I was exposed to everything, like I felt like I was a part of a family and you know, and meeting a lot of different people. So that kind of was my element, you know, during that time. But I would say the biggest advocate for me was my brother, who is out professional. He lives out in San Jose, works in television and film and you know. So that's kind of why I went into that same journey with filmmaking and so, yeah, it's, you know, having that one outlet in your family, you know, makes you feel, you know, welcome and that sort of thing. And when he was he was old and me he's in his early 40s and you know what he kind of experienced in terms of that. You know it was like a lot of hate, you know, in terms of LGBTQ community, and he was able to battle through it, you know, through the working in television and things like that. So so, yeah, that's kind of you know, my journey through that and it was me was very late in life, you know, in terms of going into education, it's funny how it kind of goes, you know, full circle. My mom was in education for 25 years. So I felt like, you know, during that time period, being a shy student, you know, and as a teacher now I kind of gravitate to that, you know, folks in the classroom and I help them with their aspirations and their dreams and focus on that. And a lot of the students I worked with, you know, graduated years ago and I still keep in contact with a lot of folks, students that are in the LGBTQ community and trying to help them get their start. So so, yeah, that's my. You know that.

I love that. We're like I'm about a month older than you, you know, whatever the day is, and so, yeah, during the time I was the person who started our GSA my senior year, you know. So, like they didn't, they weren't as populated as they are now. I also think about this a lot because I have mixed-race children. My three older kids are all from the same family. They are Mexican-American. My youngest is Black, and so when we're like out doing things or, for instance, we were at a cheer competition today, she is the the one black person in her, her cheer group right, and then we watch other groups where it's like an entire black cheer squad and I'm like man, I wish for that, for you one day, like I hope, to get us to a place where there is much more diversity so that she has people to not only look up to like having adults to look up to but just people to connect with that will have shared experiences. Because I can imagine and I talked about this again Dr Lulu, she's a wonderful person, but she's Nigerian, right, and so she was explaining just how toxic it can be for a young black person to have to come out and how isolating that could be, and so I imagine that, in an environment where not only are you a racial minority but you're also a sexual minority, that that's got to be doubly difficult. So I can, I can only imagine the things that, like your brother, had gone through when it was time for him to come out, because just hearing about how toxic the masculinity I guess can be in the community, so yeah, I don't know where that was going, but yeah, I just I'm going to edit this out. Anyway, let's talk a little bit about what it's like for you now as a queer educator.

Yeah, oh, my gosh, it's. You know I have to say during this past years this is my fifth year teaching. It's been great. I mean, believe me, I, I've learned so much from even the kids in the classroom and even looking back at myself too, and it helps me want to do more advocacy work and being out there and helping out with the community. And they're kind of like my, you know, I get my, my energy from, you know, and yeah, because, like just like other kids right now, they're just like everybody's out. They're, like you know, proud in terms of, you know, high school and that sort of thing. Yeah, like you said before, you know the school districts that I teach in. It's pretty much like 60% like Hispanic. Hispanic population is growing, you know, over the years and you know the other half is black, pretty much. I mean we don't, we don't have any other I'm thinking white families or anything like that, or students and the population there. So, yeah, they go through so much. You know challenges, even economic challenges, things that they face. I have students that had family members, you know, in terms of kills, being killed during, gun violence in the community and and the students having to go to class the next day. You know, it's like over the past seven years, students were on suicide watch, that were in the LGBTQ community and you know, and they would reach out to me, you know, and I'm like data guides, counselor, just like a teacher, help it out because they feel more comfortable, you know, talking with me on certain things or even in the classroom, you know, and I always just try my best to keep that door open for them, Because if I was that way especially, as you know, a young student you know I wouldn't want that door open to me. You know the school that I went to especially, it was, all you know, great. I remember the. My guidance counselor at the time at the high school was like telling my mom at the time like, oh, you know, it's, you know, gonna be, just, you know, good enough to be like working at the post office, Whatever, like that's basically what they said and it was terrible. And my mom was like kind of talk to the principal and like she was involved in a lot of stuff, community Stuff of the you know an Oakland, and it's like now, fast forward, you know, as a teacher and I'm in this position, you know, I'm like you know what I'm gonna keep this door open for them. Any, you know we'd a recommendation letter, a like that I'm there for them. You know because, yeah, so you know in terms of yeah, just, you know other advocacy, you know work, I'm also part of out Montclair organization. I one of the board members there. Yeah, and Queer 26 is in California. They have for educators like workshops on the part of the board as well and Doing some classes for them as well. You know soon and so, yeah, it's like the past couple years has just been like. You know what I want to do. Any opportunity that comes, you know, In my direction. You know I love to help out and you know yeah, I love that.

Wow, the audacity of that teacher talking to your mom.

But it was like you know how many years later that they probably like you know it's a spender or whatever. But now it's like totally different, it's like more open.

It's just we're GSA's and support and like it's so interesting because there's so much pressure to like the pressure on kids to like figure out what you're gonna do, and then for someone to be like this person is only good enough for the post office Like yeah, I'm like what am I?

just like it out. She's originally from New York, bronx, new York, and everything like this. Like no.

That's why I once had a college professor who was like you should tailor all of your writing towards Enterprise, since 90% of you will be working there when you graduate. And I was like I'm dropping this class, thank you, have a nice day. Just the audacity like, yeah, we're people saying this and it's okay, it's not. That's why things have changed. I love it. So, as an educator, have you had any experiences working with queer students in your space?

Oh my gosh, that's a good. Oh, it's been every year. You know I have a student right now that work with and he's, you know, 19, he's graduating this year. You know he wants to go, I believe, into Makeup. You know, here, like he kind of is going through a tradition. One minute he was like talking about he wants to do it would be a backup artist now, since he was working on set with us as a PA. He was a wardrobe assistant on the click series that I'm helping out with as a producer On and he, you know it's like, oh, you know, I want to go into acting. You know I'm gonna look at some active classes or you have schools, so I've been helping him with that and yeah, but just over the years, every student that I've worked with that this is a part of the community. You know I try my best to educate, to help them with whatever capacity or whatever medium they want to go into Excuse me, go into them. And yeah, and like, even with the Josiah, you know, using his name and all those other students, you know I try my best to kind of be an advocate, you know, for them, because the biggest thing is, like you know, the economy and the recession, you know, is getting a lot of these kids, you know, jobs, you know, yeah, a lot of high school students, you know, getting them into the workforce and and you know, getting them their start when they go out to college. So I want to try my best to, you know, prepare them, you know, for that.

That's awesome. Do you ever have a situations where students either are intentionally or unintentionally Homophobic in your space?

Oh, yeah, um, what's the call it's? A lot of times they correct them. You know I say like guys, we don't use any type of words like that, even like content even I show in class that are like you know. You know like high school dramas, whatever, like trailers that I'll show that might have like LGBTQ characters. You know, they might say you know something, but I, but I truly believe, is like the more that we show more content, you know, lgbtq content, making just a space more comfortable for everybody in that room and then when teachers advocate for the LGBTQ students and you know, in that setting, you know they learn through that lot of this. You know the folks that are like anti whatever, then they're like oh, wow, you know, even with me being an educator, but like before I even say you know how my sexual orientation, you know, is whatever. I want them to get to know me first, I think as a whole, because it's kind of the cool it cool effect, because they're like, oh, they're so used to like thinking of, like stereotypes and all sort of stuff, and they don't realize that we're just like you. Nothing like written order for or whatever you know, and the same content and shows that we watch is everything is all Universal and that's the sad thing that we have not so much, like I noticed, in White communities. It's more like, you know, progressive and everything like that's a lot of GSA's organizations, but the black communities is that, I feel, like that, you know, or is the community that we still need to kind of work on. You know, it's such a hard thing because I feel like you know, we go through, you know a lot of the stuff in terms of racism and things like that, economic issues and things you know, and it's like then you have that element and then you know and you have to, especially the students with parents that are, you know it's all caught up with that. But I feel like if we kind of have a setting, a safe space, setting for everybody, and even with the kids and showing content in the classroom, I feel more educators need to do that. In other classrooms I noticed that a lot of teachers don't. They're a little bit resistant and I think that could be a part of the problem as well, you know, and getting that type of Uh, bias, you know nature, you know out of their heads In terms of that right.

Yeah you know, what would you like to see, I mean, if you were to provide just some feedback to Um, the black community, the black queer community, like what are the steps? What do you? What would you like to see that would be helpful to your students who might be struggling, like even if you think about, like a specific students, like what do your students need, and then we can maybe expand that to that community.

Also, I like, I feel like you know the kids, you know are um, so the such innocent ones in this whole category, because they're more open and especially the content they're exposed to nowadays. I think it's like the teachers, you know, the adults that that need that type of education. I think Sad to say it, but you know, in terms of like, you know even, um, we talk about pronouns, we talk about being respectful to students and you know, in the classroom I don't see a lot of workshops, I feel like, for education, you know, for educators and at the high schools, um, that talk about that type of topic. You know, because that also relates to bullying and and issues happening out. You know that spiral. I was just watching the cbs Sunday morning. I'm just like, you know, as a wrap up, you know, but, um, but yeah, I think that's you know About the problem, like if the history teacher is is starting to, you know, at LGBTQ history it's part of the curriculum, and if the science is just starting to do that and like everything, that will change the whole landscape for the kids and what they learn in the classroom. I think that would take away the anti-LGBT and just the whole stereotype in the mindset. I think that would change it. But I think if all educators kind of work together and administration, we can really make some changes. And I think that definitely has to happen in the minority communities and things like that.

Yep, I think it's so interesting because I feel like teaching is a labor of love. We're not getting paid like billions of dollars to do this and a lot of the times we're dealing with some really unnecessary frustrations. And so one of the things that has been probably a constant theme when I talk to teachers just in general and not necessarily on the podcast, but just in general is this idea that, like, teaching is something where you get to help shape the future Right, and I think that expression is kind of triggering for some people now because I don't know there's all this talk about indoctrinating children and whatnot, when really there's no indoctrination, it's more just like teaching facts. These things happened and they happened this way, and it's so frustrating right now with the conversations on critical race theory and don't say gay it's like literally people trying to wipe away the lived experiences of minorities in education. And so it's interesting because the solution to it is for teachers to help build the future. You know what I mean, but that's the very thing that some parents are getting upset about right now is this idea that we're we're doing things that are impacting the character of children, and I also find that really interesting. I live in Texas and we do have, like we have trainings required by the state of Texas that talk about pronouns. And then, like two years ago maybe it was the last school year, not this school year, but the last school year there was a huge backlash across the state of people being frustrated that teachers were talking about pronouns. And it's required by the state for us to take these classes and we're also required to be responsible for students' social, emotional learning, which is directly tied to character building and who they are as people. So I find it so interesting that, like, there's all of these things that are we're getting pushed back on, but it's literally a part of the job, and so why are we the targets we don't make the policies? Most of the policies we hate, in fact, those ones I like, but most of the policies I am not here for, from you know, departments of education.

Why oh my God, it's so glad you're here. I was in Florida the other day and a couple was walking because my mom lives in the community and stuff like that in Florida, and she was just talking to the lady. The wife was saying about oh, you know what's the code for the drag queen, and so it also was stuff like and abandoning that, whatever. I think that's great and I'm just like and it's just like it's triggering because I'm like a teacher, like she doesn't even know anything about it, my background and everything, but it's just like it's scary, it's very scary, and especially teachers, what they're going through in Florida. I feel like all of us need to, you know, start getting some petition sides and really support this home, you know, just to erase all the stuff that they're trying to take away. You know that we worked really hard for you know, as educators, to especially with LGBT history and Black curriculum, and you know it's yeah, it's just a very scary time so right now, but all teachers just got to join together. I feel I agree with you.

I saw a video the other day online that was basically somebody who was conservative trying to describe woke and how. Like the term gets thrown around a lot and it was like woke is you know when people create this story of oppression? And I was like create, like how do you not see that these stories exist, that they are real stories that people are telling? And I will gladly be called woke I don't use the term myself, but like go ahead, call me that. If being woke means that I'm here talking about how we shouldn't be oppressing people, I am all here for it. Like what is your problem?

Yeah, right, this is true. Mike Rehner said yeah, but you know, even with this platform that you have, I think it's, you know, phenomenal folks to listen to and I hope it gets more. You know parents and you know educators involved. You know more.

I hope so too Me doing some big pushes in the next couple weeks for the next season, for the next school year. So have you ever dealt with parents who have had anti-LGBTQ conversations or situations arise within your content area Like you've shown a trailer that features queer students and then our queer characters and all of a sudden parents are emailing or whatever? Have you gotten to experience this? You and I are relatively new to teaching People started about five years ago, so what has your experience been like with parents?

Yeah, you know, I haven't had any issues and that's, you know, ironic. I've had issues maybe with a student with like, a grade or a student having issues, you know, in a classroom, but never have had. And I've even done we did a documentary series during the pandemic who's for a black LGBTQ doc series and it was like catered to all the, you know, black community, the LGBTQ that have changed you know, in history and you know iconic people like semester and all these different you know singers and stuff like that through time and nobody said, yeah, nobody selected. The ministries were, you know, for it. The students wanted to be involved and you know, and we've also had one year, one time, two, you know, queer parents, you know, and one of the students I was doing a film camp, younger grades and stuff, and he said, oh, my moms are outside, whatever. And the kids were like, you know, they didn't say anything but it was like a silence and I'm like, oh, that's great, I'm like, and he said, hello to them, the parents outside, you know, dropping the bus and but yeah, it's just, you know, but as teachers, like you know, being an advocate and just talking to them and showing them like, hey, it's you know there's nothing wrong with that. You know it helps with the other kids too to kind of, you know, because everything with kids like a sponge, like listen, they're seeing everything that you do in the classroom as a teacher. If I'm, you know, half awake class, they'll know. Mr All UK, you're tired today, you know so, but they, you know, know all your mannerisms and they just, you know, focus on you. And so if you, as a teacher, advocate for that other student, you know they might be in a situation in the lunch room and somebody does something, you know, and they'll do the same thing that you cut it, because you taught them that in the classroom.

You know, in terms of you know being supportive to everybody, you know so yeah, that's great, awesome, I'm glad, and that also sounds like you've got a pretty supportive administration.

Yeah, oh yeah. So you know in my school, yeah, in terms of we have a GSA, it's called the Breakfast Club and it's in the morning. The only thing I would say and it does have to be the afternoon, it's like it's seven o'clock.

I do not want to get up that early?

I don't think kids really get up early? I don't think kids wake up that much. They usually just there at the bell, like getting to the high school, you know. But it's, you know, it's a start, you know, in terms of the organization and kids getting involved. And even in my classroom we're working with them. In my classroom we're working with other LGBT organizations in Newark and doing commercials for the film program and helping out, you know, doing advocacy work, and so, yeah, you know, in terms of that, I have to say they've been very accommodating and supportive with that for the students.

So I love that you incorporate LGBTQ topics into your curriculum. Can you tell me a little bit more about the documentary Like? Who were some of the people that you featured?

Oh my God. So we did there's a Vaster, because I started listening to him, you know. So I kind of picked a list of different people oh my God and if I, because we did it during, like the pandemic but folks that like political leaders, who else do we have? And we also talked about just, and what I would do is have people within, like you know, new Jersey area, so we would have a teacher talking about that specific you know person and I would give them a list and say, like, which one do you want to pick? You know you want to do Marsha P Johnson or you want to do you know other people, and they'll be like, okay, I'll do this you know person and they'll talk about it and the kids will find like photos on Google and like add it to the video and add some music in the background. And then they would ask some specific questions like what does this person mean to you and what role do you have? You know, in the community and you know what kind of advocacy work you've been doing. So it was like a doc series I just came up with. It was during the pandemic and then it kind of just like everybody was getting involved the president from the Guaranteed Equality, you know he wanted to be involved in it as well and but this year I'm going to try my best to get it and put this together this year because sadly I had to take the leave of absence, I had to have surgery, so I couldn't do it this year for Black History Month, but next year, 100%, you know, school year, I'm going to do it like the next season, but it was fun. The kids liked it, especially the kids that like illustration and were able to add their photos in there. I collaborated with the dance teacher next door. She did pose in terms of like the pose, you know, movement and what's the call with like Madonna and like you know kind of speed a lesson. You asked Vogue and yes, and she did. I recorded her lesson in the classroom. She was talking to the students and the kids asking questions and then we added like photos and stuff and the kids were dancing in the videos. It was really neat. So it's good to have that collaboration with other teachers, you know that's awesome.

Last year, I think, I was asked for us to do, you know, historical character, not characters, but people for, I think, lgbtq History Month, which I believe is October and so I was naming off these people and the first ones were, you know, like Marsha P Johnson, sylvia Rivera, and I literally got like they didn't go through with the project because the first two people I put they focused on the fact that they had to work as sex workers and I was like, okay, but what about the facts that they were trans women in the 50s and 60s? Like how do we have that conversation? Because we are more than just one tiny part of our identity, and I think that's the harder thing is that so many people have been boxed into. This is what my identity is and it's like one thing I'm a Christian, I'm gay, I'm a baseball fan, like whatever. The one thing is, and that, like this, is who I am, except for we're all kinds of different things. Every person has a kaleidoscope of different elements, so why are we also focused on just like this one thing? Drag queens are performers. It's a part of their job. Why is that the focus, as opposed to the rest of their life? You know what happens the other 22 hours of the day, because they perform for maybe three hours of it.

Yeah, that's right, it's true, and it's like you know it's nothing and it's very innocent and stuff like that. It's like you know you're seeing like a show or going to like a bravado, you know it's kind of like, yeah, and it's sad that people kind of like focus on that and you know, I don't understand why they would want to take it away.

It's just crazy. I'm also like parents have the right to take their kids to things. Like there are ratings on movies, but a parent can still take their children to those movies. You know what I mean? Like you still have a right as a parent. So what is it doing? Saying like if a parent wants to do this, it's their choice. They know their child, they know what they're taking their child to. So it's just. It's a very interesting time we're living in, so I'm going to go ahead and wrap up the conversation. We've got two questions to kind of end the podcast. The first one is what advice would you give to a brand new teacher who may not know whether or not to be their authentic self in the classroom?

That's a great question. I would say the only advice is be yourself and also don't be afraid in terms of the content of the projects you want to incorporate in the classroom, because you never know the students that are in your classroom. That might be a part of the LGBTQ community and as a whole. If you don't understand that in terms of seeing them and especially the content you have in the classroom, you don't know what that does to them. It basically makes them feel included and the things that the kids are exposed to nowadays like we talked about suicide rate and going up and everything else the impact that you're giving them in the classroom speaks volumes. So just know you're worth, know that you are valuable. I know it's hard that nowadays we're like overworked and exhausted and all the stuff, but just know there's also other teachers out there just like you that are just a part of the whole good fight. And, yeah, just keep yourself in terms of inclusion and going in the classroom and being an advocate for them. That's the advice I would give to a newcomer.

And then the final question is what can parents, teachers and students do to help move the needle towards inclusivity for LGBTQ people?

Oh, yeah, I would say you know in terms of parents, and you know a lot of times I feel like you know teachers, really like we're the ones kind of seeing them a lot more often than the parents. You know they drop not school. They're there with them for, like, you know, the weekends or after in the evening, but you know they don't realize that they have a lot of power. You know they could be able to help change, you know the cycle as well or be or even help out at, you know, at the school, you know in terms of going to PTA or you know any type of like after school for whatever, but in terms of like you know it could be a parent that has a student you know that is part of those LGBTQ communities. Well, you know we have to be advocates for them. But you know, I think parents just need to be involved, be more supportive. I think because I've been hearing some also controversy, especially the board meetings a lot of parents are, like you know, lashing out a lot of times as educators or, you know, especially with this whole thing that's going on yeah, just to kind of keep an open mind and know that, like teachers are here for your kids and, like you know, we want advocates for them, helping them, you know, during their career. You know journey or educational journey, but you know, but just know that you know, lgbtq curriculum, you know black education, something like that, are very important and helping them, shape them to the people that you know they grow up to be. So you know, I think that parents just have to work hand in hand, I think, with educators as well, and administration and, and definitely, you know, go to those meetings, go to the board meetings, learn about what's going on and and see how you can be able to be a service and support with that, you know. So hopefully that's good.

I love that. I think that get involved is a huge thing because you know who's getting involved is the people who might have a different opinion from you. But if we don't hear from both sides of the situation, then the school boards are not going to make edu, fully educated decisions, right. So I love that get involved. Thank you so much for spending the afternoon with me. I really appreciate it. It's a gorgeous day here in Texas. I hope it's a gorgeous day that they're in New Jersey.

Yeah, we finally had some sunshine after like rated everything.

Awesome. Well, thank you and thank everybody for tuning into this episode of teaching while. If you're enjoying the episodes, please leave a review wherever you're listening to our podcast. Check us out on Instagram at teaching while queer, and if you're interested in being on season two of teaching while queer, please visit teaching while queer. Have a great day.