The Unfiltered Reality of Being a Queer Nanny turned Teacher: Seth Day's Story

Speaker 1: 0:05

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for LGBTQIA plus teachers, administrators and anyone who works in academia to share their stories. Hi, my name is Brian Stanton, a queer theater educator in San Antonio, texas. Each week, I bring you stories from around the world centered on the experiences of LGBTQIA folks in academia. Thank you for joining me on this journey and enjoy teaching while queer. Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, brian Stanton, and I am so excited to invite to the podcast today, seth Day. How are you doing today, seth? I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. Tell me a little bit where you at where you located I am emotionally or physically.

Speaker 2: 0:53

So I am actually from New York originally, but I now currently live in Montreal, quebec and Canada, so that's fun.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Oh wow, I haven't had anybody on the podcast from Canada yet, so this is our second second international episode. We should have some confetti or something to throw in the air. I'm so excited to have you here. So just getting started. Usually on the podcast we kind of work chronologically, so tell me a little bit about what it was like for you as a young queer person.

Speaker 2: 1:27

So it's actually interesting. I was thinking about this question and I was like I didn't, I didn't like even wasn't even on my radar that I was queer until I was like well into college, probably like right about when it graduated college. So it was an interesting question to reflect on, because I don't, I didn't like actively know that I was queer. I wasn't, you know, actively in those communities at that time, but I was always like very different and very weird and just like like I was like the person showing up to school and like full anime costumes and like just handing out cupcakes for no reason. I was always just like very strange child.

Speaker 1: 2:02

So maybe just a theater kid, I don't know. Yeah, I was also. Yeah, I was from my experience.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Yes, I was a theater kid, how did you know From all my gesticulating and you know coming into school and costumes, but anyway, yeah, so I think, like you know, I didn't have.

Speaker 1: 2:19

It's actually kind of interesting because I didn't have that experience from that lens, at least in a you know knowingly right, so I don't have have a lot to like something that I want to think more about, but like I don't have a lot to say about that so interesting, and that's the thing I love about this podcast the most is just hearing the different perspectives and folks as they coming on, and I've had quite a few people actually that I've interviewed where they were like I didn't really realize until I was in college or just after college or in the workforce, already living my life. And I think it's so interesting how each of us has our own journey. Yeah so if you don't mind, do you? Would you share a little bit about your journey of discovery for yourself?

Speaker 2: 3:02

Yeah, sure it's actually quite hilarious. I think it's pretty funny because so at the time I was in, I was probably just about to graduate college and I I had met my my now wife. Then I'm not sure if we were. I think we were dating at the time. I don't know if you asked her and you asked me. We were dating like. We started dating at different times, so who knows? But anyway, I had met her and we were like online friends and whatever. It's a whole long story. But all of all of this to say that one day before we had even met in person, I think because we were online friends, I, you know, we didn't ever think we were going to even meet in person. We were living in different countries, all this kind of stuff, and because of that, we're we're very honest with each other. And I told her about how I was feeling, about my body and all these kinds of things, and she, literally, these were like in the days I mean, tumblers still exist, but these were like the, the peak tumbler days. And she was like I found this post, you may be transgender. I literally like sent me a post and I was like, wow, these are all the things I'm feeling. So I found out that I was trans through a tumbler post. That my wife sent me.

Speaker 1: 4:06

The power of the internet. Right, I love that and I also love that that she was so supportive of you. Yeah, and in that conversation just being like, hey, I saw this and it reminded me of you and for like, so you might be transgendered. Like for someone to even like have the. I don't know the bravery to be able to have that conversation with someone else. Because how do you tell someone I think you're trans, right yeah?

Speaker 2: 4:33

I think it's, you know, I think it has a lot to do with just like that kind of relationship that we had built up. But it was really funny, though, because she had finally like and then, you know, I went through the whole process of like going to therapy and like figuring myself out and all these kinds of things, and but it was really funny because she had finally, like we were becoming more about my romantic life, but we were like both interested in men at the time, like we were both like women who are interested in men. I had no, you know. So it was really like she finally came to terms with dating a woman and then I was like surprise, figure your shit out again. So that was kind of a silly guess.

Speaker 1: 5:09

Well, we're not lesbians, exactly.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Yeah, so it was. It was kind of an interesting journey and yeah, I think it was pretty like straightforward from there. I, you know, I started going to therapy. I started going, you know, I started hormones pretty quickly. You can't see me viewers that have a beautiful beard.

Speaker 1: 5:33

It's very, very nice, very nice, very nice.

Speaker 2: 5:37

But yeah, and all that all that kind of, all that kind of jazz, and I started really but that's when I started really connecting more with the queer community, I like, right when I came out actually. So my background, a little bit going back a little bit, is that I have a degree in art education from the States and then I actually was like screw the school system, I kind of don't believe in it for a lot of reasons, and so I nanny for about seven years that work in that and now you know, I'm kind of back into teaching, but at any rate was just a different kind of teaching really.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Absolutely. As a parent, like I feel like I'm teaching at school and then I'm teaching at home, so yeah, I understand that.

Speaker 2: 6:16

Oh my gosh but. But I actually ended up getting fired for my first lit. First of all, the living job. I had moved to another state and I got fired for being trans, so that was fun. I like didn't tell them I was trans, and then they found out and they were like yeah, get out of here, so then I lost my place. It was in Boston at the time and I lost my place to live and my income at the same time and I was like you know what, I'm going to just move to New York City, like people do, and someone will hire me there. And they did. So I, you know, just kind of worked there for a long time and sort of that was sort of how I like process my transition and I found cool queer families to work with and, you know, families who were more accepting and yeah, that's wonderful.

Speaker 1: 6:55

I also love that you are living my fantasy life. I'm just going to move to New York and somebody is going to hire me.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Literally, I was just like whatever, I'll just take the meager savings I have. I have like a one month rent and I'll just figure something out. I did.

Speaker 1: 7:09

Oh my gosh, that's awesome. It's literally written into several musicals the person getting off the bus with their one suitcase and they have no way to take it. Right, Like it's just. It's just a part of culture for New York City. You just show up and people find work for you.

Speaker 2: 7:23

Oh, I had quite more than just a few case. I have a problem with things, but you know that's hysterical.

Speaker 1: 7:32

So at the time, so you were transitioning while you were working as a nanny, and so how? How was it reentering the workforce now, as you're fully evolved self? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 7:48

I don't know if I don't know if I'm currently fully evolved, but I know what you mean. I'm more like, as you know, as myself, and sort of figuring myself out. It was actually quite wonderful because I found a family where the father is transgender and the mother was this woman. So they were very like you know, aware of those things to say. The mother was also queer as well. So, like they were very, you know, they they understood like, like when I had to take a month off to get top surgery or like, which is when I was like you know, we would just like talk about hormones or whatever. Like he gave me my first razor. I was cleaning their bathroom and they had like five sets of razors and I was like, why do you need these? And he was like you want one of? them. Great, you know, like it was just like a really like lovely and supportive environment, and actually it's funny that it was twins. That was my first nanny, three sets of twins that was my first set of twins and one of the kids actually is transgender as well, and so it was really like wonderful to be in a space, also as an educator, like where I could teach like my values and things that are important to me, right, and so I found it actually really, really awesome and I just made sure, like, after I had that experience of being fired, I literally outed myself at every interview I had Because I was like, if you're going to be transphobic, I'd rather you do it before you hire me, you know. And so it was actually quite, really freeing because I was just like I know I'm working for people who are, you know, especially like in their reaction. I could see like I had this family. I did not end up working with this family, but I was like when I said I was trans, I think they were trying to do the like oh, I have a black friend thing. But like in a queer way that and they were like oh, we have friends, and I think they meant queer friends, but they just said they had friends. And I was like me too, like I don't. I just kind of played dumb and was like that's nice, like, but anyway, it was really interesting to see people's reactions Absolutely, and it's funny because I find myself doing that to you.

Speaker 1: 9:47

The more that I've dealt with adversity, the more I'm upfront about things and I think that is. It's just smart. It's a defense mechanism but a mechanism.

Speaker 2: 9:55

But I think it's a smart defense mechanism to just like lay the card out on the table and take me, or leave me Like, let's do it, because if you're going to not want to work with me because of that, I'd rather find out now, then get a job, and then it'd be weird, right Like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Weird or like uncomfortable. Yeah really uncomfortable? Yeah, absolutely, and it's funny because I feel like these are things that a lot of people don't think about. Yeah, all right, you could just go living your life every day and it's not an issue. But then, like for us, it's like I was joking with someone over the summer. I have a tattoo, for the folks at home can't see it, but it's like torn flesh on my sleeve and it has my name, my last name, on it, that my son designed and the fleshy part of it is is rainbow. And I was like well, I don't wear my queerness on my skin, and now I do Like, yeah, you know what I mean. And so it was just this idea of like needing to be so upfront with it that I was like it is now fully a part of me and everyone can see. This is who I am from the get go, so I don't have to worry about like yeah oh, I'm going to be treated one way and then treated completely different than someone discovers. And that's such an interesting thing because I was talking with another guest, Dr Lulu. She is a bisexual pediatrician what a great name, Right, Fantastic. And she's like I trademarked that and I was like I should grow this, like wonderful. And she now works with like the parents of transgender and gay kids to like help them process this information and she's an advocate for, like inviting in versus coming out, because then it's not a secret that, like I'm hiding from you. It's more like I'm ready to share with you this and I think, spinning that, that that perspective is going to be revolutionary and what people think about it, because for some reason, coming out still feels like I'm hiding something bad, and then I have to tell you about it and it's really hard and as like as a queer person, we're constantly coming out. Like you, and you and I are doing this at every single job interview to protect ourselves, but we're constantly having to do it and so like reframing that, that idea of the shame behind coming out and the secret that we're keeping versus, like, I'm going to let you in on this thing. I feel comfortable with you and I love that.

Speaker 2: 12:48

You need to know that.

Speaker 1: 12:49

I think it's, it's powerful and I think that it's interesting that different people, different perspectives, different places. My cat just knocked over some toys, so I know more.

Speaker 2: 13:01

It's a cat, that's a cat.

Speaker 1: 13:03

She's going to do that one second. Yeah, take your time.

Speaker 2: 13:17

Yeah, I have opened the door for I don't have any human children, but I have four bunnies, and they don't knock things over, but they just eat everything. Like, they're like why is that spicy hay Anyway?

Speaker 1: 13:31

yep, that derailed my train of thought, but it's all right. Because I think that I got my point across. So, transitioning from working as a nanny into working in, are you working in public schools, do you work in private schools or so I have, I work at a very unique educational institution.

Speaker 2: 13:51

It is actually a nonprofit, it's called Lacaban and it's because, you know, we're all Frenchy here in Quebec and it's basically a homeschooling collective. So it's not like we're not a school per se, but basically it's like these kids come, these are all kids who are homeschooled and they come for a three day. It's it's, you know, it's funny, because when I say to people I'm like it's like homeschooling, but we do it together, they're like Seth, that's like school, and I'm like no, but basically they come for a three day program and it's bilingual. So some of the days in French, some of the English, some of the key kids speak only French, only English or bilingual. So it's a really really unique kind of experience. But basically I'm the weak link who only speaks a little bit of French. I'm working on it, I know, but basically it's, you know, sort of your typical you know if the schedule seems it reflects a little bit of what school is like. So it's basically in the morning we have circle time and so, funny, when I first interviewed and they were like circle time, I'm like okay, we like sing songs. We're like no, we like talked about, like you know what do you call it? Oh, my gosh, my brain is what is it the? The schools that the indigenous folks were forced to go to, that I can't think of yes.

Speaker 1: 15:16

But like I've, been reading a lot about this recently.

Speaker 2: 15:18

And now my brain is. I'm having a brain fart, but yeah. But basically, like they started finding all these bodies and like we talked to the kids about that right, and we had a book about like I am I used to for a couple of years I hosted a podcast called Rad Child Podcast and so we basically it was about like how to talk to kids about tricky topics like that, and so I got really big into like kids books about those kinds of things. So we would, you know, in the morning we would talk about and it wasn't always serious topics. The next day it might be like, oh, you know, the habs one hockey or whatever, but you know, it wasn't important, like I really love that, like I have a space to be able to talk to them about stuff like that, all these kinds of things, but anyway, so in the morning we have like circle time and then we work on something called the Diffie, which means challenge in French. So basically, for a month the kids propose projects and for a month we work on these projects and they're often, they're mostly, community based. So like it's a question. It starts with the questions like how do we keep people experiencing homelessness warm during the winter? Right, like, figure out ways to oh, I froze my back. You're back.

Speaker 1: 16:26

Okay, karate chopping, so the last thing I got was we start with a question. How do you yeah?

Speaker 2: 16:32

So we start with a question, so like, for example, one of them was how do we keep people experiencing homelessness warm during the winter, right, and then we make a whole project about that and we, you know, try to help in some way. And we actually we did one last semester that was all about the 2s, lbt, qia plus community. And like how do we, how do we be good allies or things like that, and some of our kids identify as being members of the community but for and you know, they all had different levels of knowledge around that. But anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. So so we do projects like that and that lasts a month, and then and then in the, and then they have lunch. They have two hours of free play, okay, in the public schools here. 15 minutes, okay.

Speaker 1: 17:14

Two hours sounds fantastic.

Speaker 2: 17:16

They have two hours of free play.

Speaker 1: 17:18

More recess, less class work. I'm here for it.

Speaker 2: 17:22

And then at the end of the day they have between three workshops and they do their shop for the whole semester. So it's things like dance, woodworking. I'm teaching sign language right now, like all different, and again it's child led. So the kids say, well, they're interested in, and then we built curriculum around that. Really really cool, unique, unique place.

Speaker 1: 17:43

That's fantastic. I love that. I love the focus on social emotional learning, where you are literally have circle time every day and you're talking about like real world issues and having those tough conversations with kids, but then also being able to be like oh. So Taylor Swift's album came out at midnight, right Like last night.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Yeah, I, literally. Last year we were doing at circle time, we called it Newsday Tuesday, so we'd read a news article every Tuesday and one time the article was literally about a dog this was in the UK, I think a dog that they that was stuck in like a swamp. They used drone and tied a sausage to the drone and lured the dog back to safety with a sausage on his road. Like so we would like you know it's getting them reading, but it's like about animals which is interesting. They're interested, like it wasn't always like these, you know, dark, sad, tough sometimes, but, like you know, sometimes we would also just, you know, hear about news that was that was fun, because it can't just always be depressing. This is why I don't like watching news, because you just make me sad, like it's always focused on the depressing stuff, you know. But like, for example, other circle time, I noticed that some of the kids were, just for a reference, there between the ages of six and 11. So it's like one room schoolhouse, like, right, this year they're separated into the groups 27 kids, but last year it was about 16 kids and it was one group. So this year they're separated by age for some things and then they're together for other things, like lunch and play and things like that. But I noticed that some of the kids were talking negatively about their bodies, like not to eat and stuff like that. And so I read this really awesome book called Bodies Are Cool and I, you know, literally I like held it up to the kids and the first thing and they're like fat bodies, skinny bodies, like all the kinds of bodies on this cover, and the first thing, six years ago, they're all healthy bodies and healthy bodies on the cover, and I was like, how do you know? You know nothing about these bodies other than some of them are fat, some of them are skinny, right, and so it was a really interesting conversation and so, like I also, you know, find it really important to like talk to kids about the thing or coming up for them, right, not just like the things that I'm imposing that I think are important, and so so I really think like that kind of child led stuff is awesome. But I'm lucky I just feel lucky that I work in a place where I can talk about these things that are important to me, you know.

Speaker 1: 20:08

Yeah, I think that's fantastic to you. I think body image is so hard nowadays, especially with social media because everybody can publish the perfect filtered thing, and you? Always see life being wonderful and you don't necessarily see that behind that perfect filter is a crack and that each of us have our own cracks that we're dealing with and patching up. And what absolutely. Yeah, and as a person who has suffered body dysmorphia because of weight problems, my whole life pretty much. I appreciate that, because no one as a kid taught me that it's okay to love your body, even if your body is bigger, and that you can be a healthy person who is bigger, and you need to. You know, happiness doesn't come from being skinny.

Speaker 2: 20:57

And it's quite important to me especially when I'm showing them books or images or, you know, videos, whatever it is that different kinds of bodies are represented, different kinds of people or families, whether it's sexuality, whether it's gender, whether it's rape or ability or all these different things. Like it's so important to me, like A that like when we're bringing people in for different things, like there's, you know, diversity, but also like, if you can't have the person in front of you, like to try and make sure that the books that we're reading are featured diversity, because that's shocking when they see someone wheelchair, or when they see, you know someone who's different color or whatever. Right, it's just like oh yeah, normal.

Speaker 1: 21:39

Yep, absolutely. And so, jumping into working in education, especially, you're working with students who are homeschooled. Do you find that? It was well? I'm not sure what the right question is, I guess. What is it like working with your students, Do you feel? Hmm?

Speaker 2: 22:07

good grief. Okay, take your time yeah. This is the magic, what the magic editing is for. Which I've gotten really good at, because I say I'm a lot See, yeah, see it podcasting is wonderful for making you realize which words you repeat all the time you're editing and you're like my God. See, I have five over it, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:32

I say that's awesome, wild and yes.

Speaker 2: 22:37

I say wild all the time because it was my replacement for crazy when I stopped saying crazy.

Speaker 1: 22:41

Yes.

Speaker 2: 22:42

I started saying, that's why.

Speaker 1: 22:45

Anyway, that's why all the time. So my question center, like when we're looking at the form they center on, like working with parents, working with students, working with administration. So yeah, thinking about your working with homeschooled students, what has it been like? How have you been received as a person? Because stereotypically and I understand this is stereotype homeschool folks get a bad rap for being kind of disconnected from diversity.

Speaker 2: 23:18

Yeah, and.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 23:20

I'm sorry, Go ahead Okay. I'm going, yeah, so. So it's actually really interesting because when I was looking for another nannying job, I was kind of like burnt out of nannying but didn't know what else to do, because I can't teach in the school system here. First of all, I don't want to. Second of all, I'm not qualified because I'm qualified back in the States, but I would have to like get everything you know here, you know exactly. It's the whole process and I'm like why would I pay all that money and do all that work for something I'm not even like committed to being interested in, you know? So I was looking for another nannying job and one of the founders of this organization saw my post. I was like we really want you to apply for this and I was like I like it. And the things in the listing was that like they are prioritizing queer people and people of color in the hiring process? And I was like, yeah, I'm, yes, correct, and so that was like a green flag for me. I was like, okay, and not that I think that they hired me because I'm trans, right, but I think that that that was definitely like something that they were like wow, we want our kids to be, you know, these kids to be exposed to different kinds of people and not like a using me kind of way. I'm just also very highly qualified, like I'm not, you know, but think of it to me someone at the same level. They probably were like we'll choose this guy because also he's got you know these other things going on right. Like it was all, because last year, with the exception of one person, is basically all white women, and so they were like you know guys, other people, and this year, in fact, there I'm one of three men which is out of like a group of eight people. Like we have a very small team, so like it's pretty, pretty decent, but anyway, so that's like diversity is really important, you know, is the core, like inclusion is like one of their values and so, but anyway, like and of course, like you're going to get parents and families with all different kinds of values in any school or any kind of organization like that. But I told this for a year we were learning about the queer community and all these things. So it's like you know this because we do like a gratitude circle at the end of the day and I said, you know, I'm really grateful. This is actually the first space I've ever been in where, like you know, sometimes I'm on the very like identify as a man, but I'm gender nonconforming. So, like I wear dresses, I wear it all exclusively women's clothing because it's just more fun objectively, and you know so, I wear nail polish, all these kinds of things, and I pretty like rather have it. And I said to them like you know, this is the first space I've worked with children One of you questioned the way that I present myself. No one said nail polish is for girls or like why are you wearing a skirt? Like they were just like nice skirt. No, here, like none of the kids cares, and I thought that was like really amazing, you know, never really special space in the kids are really special. I will say, though, that when we did that month on like queer kind of community project that I was talking about earlier, there were two families that pulled out, so that was like and me and at the time we were much smaller, last year only 16 kids so it was me and my other coworker, miriam, who's all queer and she's like a queer cis woman of color, and we were like, really offended by that, like you're gonna you know you're you the parent are gonna come to me in my face and like oh and then be like but do I need not to be shared with my children? Right? Like so that didn't feel great and and don't get me wrong, like I still I'm friends with you know one of those parents still to this day and like I think they were like oh well, we want to have those conversations with the children, but we don't understand any of this. I'm like so then are you going to have? Why would you not want the experts, the queer people, to be the one having these? You know, it was like a cop out to me. It was just like you know, they didn't want to say that they were uncomfortable with it or whatever, and so that was like a little, a little fat to me. But in general, like you know, most of the parents and the kids are pretty chill with that kind of stuff. We had non binary kids last year out of 16 kids, so they're pretty. Like we always introduce ourselves with pronouns like that kind of stuff is pretty, was pretty, you know, normal there, which is nice.

Speaker 1: 27:49

That sounds wonderful, like I'm just thinking about the year that I had last year with the previous school district where I was like reprimanded about asking for pronouns and like had someone principal who is a cisgender white woman Tell me who is a queer, non-binary person, how I'm supposed to ask pronouns? And I was like, um, no, that's, that's, that's not correct. But thank you, and because the thing is that, like I had, I was the teacher of the year. I gave this huge speech about how we need to love the children because, like really teachers, teachers have this ability to to help create this whole human and a lot of times children will feel like they just not cared about and it's our job to make sure that they're, they feel like they're cared for.

Speaker 2: 28:53

And.

Speaker 1: 28:54

I shared the story about how I was outed as a kid and then was told by asking pronouns you may be outing kids and I was like nope, I'm, I'm asking.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Oh, I have a whole story about this nonsense. Last year we had a child. So the first day of class I introduced myself with my pronouns and I offered for the kids to, you know, follow that format. It was, you know, it's like oh hi, I'm Seth, I use it and I had it in my로 National Sesernum program. It was what I was doing so when I was on Senate, hahaha. So back in the summerk, hop 23, we did celebrates. Um, it's a huge 열� event from now and we well, you, you know respond to these reasons. So it's very interesting. Um, I didn't have my kid figured out not to do math school. I had the concept in the influence. So I've been like, wow, entire air int crocodile was walking right in front of me every time into the space and she introduced herself with her pronouns and so the kids just naturally introduced themselves with their pronouns. We had done it once and you know they were just following kind of the format that she had set and the first kid up said hi, I'm such and such, I'm a boy, but I eat her pronouns. Like that was news to me. But I was like, okay, just said it like very matter of factly, and we all went around, whatever, and this was at a workshop. So only about half the kids were there, right. And so since that happened, you know, if I heard other people using the incorrect pronouns, I would just correct them whatever. And I was like, oh yeah, this person is using those pronouns. And the reaction even from like the like boyist scissors boy in the class was like, oh okay, cool, like they're just stick, don't, it's not face the metal, you know. And but anyway, so long story short, at one point this was this is kind of like my fun administration story. So at the time we were a team of about four or five and I said one of the other team members noticed that the parents were still using he-him pronouns and so we were like, well, let's ask this child what pronouns do you want us to use with the parents? Because, like we, because I was very, because the minute this happened my boss was like, well, we need to tell the parents. And I was like I'm not adding this student, like that's not appropriate. And and we all agreed as a team of again five people three of us are queer last year. So as a team we agreed that it was not appropriate to add this to. So I asked the child like what pronouns do you want me to use with your parents? And they were like she heard. And then like immediately turned around, like actually him. And I was like, okay, great. So again as a team, I like we decided we were going to use these pronouns with the parents. Then one day the child tells me oh, I told my parents, it's fine. I told my parents about my new pronouns. I was like, okay, great. So then mom shows up and I started saying she heard. And mom's looking at me and I'm like oh, I'm using those pronouns because she said that she told you and she have not. I don't know why this kid told me this. But then mom is like you lied to me, you didn't tell me that they were using these pronouns, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then administration threw me under the bus and acted as if we hadn't made these decisions together, okay, and was like oh well, you shouldn't have done that. And I was like did we? Was no one else at the meeting where we all decided two, ten times and we weren't going to have this child right, and so like that was. And then they ended up pulling that kid out of the whole program and refusing to use the pronouns and saying that she's just doing it for attention. And I was like, okay, worst case scenario, she's doing it for attention. What are you showing her by using the pronouns she's asking you to use? That you respect her. Literally that's it. And if she's doing it for attention and she's not getting attention, she's gonna stop doing it. I had a kid. I nannied we'll just wake up from a nap. He just gave us four years old and said my name is Gabby now and I used to hear her pronouns and really went by Gabby and she heard for a week and then was just like, never mind, I'm Timothy and I blow it again. And we were like, okay, like nothing else changed was just all we showed that kid was that we respect their decisions. And then, if it ever you know what I mean if it's a weak faith, who cares? We? We let kids pretend to their turtles and cats and astronauts, but we can't respect some pronouns, even if they're just trying it out or even if it's the game. You know what I mean like it makes no sense. So that was a really unfortunate, unfortunate situation and I feel really bad for that kid because what is that kid being told? That kid is being kind of like if you, you know, ever do you want to change? You know, if you, your gender is, you know something you want to explore. That's not something that we're gonna, you know, tolerate or accept, and it's really sad right and it perpetuates the idea that it's just a fad.

Speaker 1: 33:31

It's just yeah, it's a phase, of just a phase or something in in reality that I have had students who have identified with one pronouns gone through therapy and then realize that they are actually a different set of pronouns and and they went through this process, right and. But they went through that process because their parents and their teachers and the people respected them enough to be able to do that, so that they can learn about themselves, because it's really all it is is learning learning about yourself and who you are or I. Always it's like my, I guess it's a not really a fair assessment, but, like, my child changes Halloween costumes every five days, like you know. She's wants to be an astronaut, she wants to be a cat, she wants to be an owl she wants to, she want to be a drag queen for a while, and I was like yep, and she was. She wanted to be a beauty pageant and I was like all right, um, you know, like and it's not saying that like she like, if she were to come to me and do the similar thing with with gender, I would just respect what she's saying and be like Okay, that's fine. And just saying okay and respecting that just lets her know that I'm a safe person to talk to. And I realize the Halloween costume is like a really like a really yeah. Right, it's just about being there for your kid.

Speaker 2: 35:00

Yeah, exactly, and I'll do whatever they want, but except them, you know, when doing reasonable things, but uh, but you know it's like I I always joke that I'm I'm just making trans and beer, because a large percentage of the kids that I've nanny have come out as trans. And you know, I was making a joke with a friend and they're like no, seth, it's not that you're just creating a supportive environment and feel okay to be themselves, that you're transing them. I'm like, yes, absolutely to me, it all. All their public is worse. Fears are true. It's contagious.

Speaker 1: 35:35

I don't know but I thought it was really interesting. That is so funny because my best friend and I were just talking about how like she doesn't want her kids to turn out queer and I I'm kind of like, well, if they do, that's fine, you know, and or you know, I'm gonna support them no matter what. But she was always like I just don't want, I just don't want them to turn out queer because, like, then people are gonna be like it's because you're a lesbian. Well, I was raised by straight people and I was constantly around straight people. But here I am like I know, I know it works both ways. Right, yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 36:10

Oh my gosh. I yeah I love when people say that I'm just like well, all of us queer people were like raised by those straight people and we sort of turned out like this. So I don't know.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Yeah, must be the devil clearly. Obviously, it's the only. It's the only solution. Oh my god so what would you say to, to teachers who are maybe entering the field, who are a part of the community? You've had experience working for public education. You were like meh, no, not not for it, not a fan. Now you work in private education, which I think is so cool Because the environment that was built for you but as you as a like, maybe a young educator who is a part of the community and Stepping into the field. What words of advice would you have for them, as they're going into the field and maybe maybe centered on being your true self?

Speaker 2: 37:09

Yeah, well, that's like. What I was about to say is just like I think that, first of all, I think that, depending on where you live, you know, and even if you live in like the most coolest liberal place, I think it's gonna be hard, right, there are gonna be kids and parents who have different beliefs, just with, like, your number of kids. Right, it's gonna be kids and parents and administration have different beliefs and values than you, and I think that's hard. But I thought we were talking about before, like, not necessarily that you need to out yourself an interview, but I think it's just so important to just like be yourself from the get-go and, you know, because you do, you really want to work in a place that wouldn't accept because you're wearing nail polish in a view or whatever, right, I don't think, don't be professional, like you know. I think that it's really important to just like be yourself from the get-go, be honest and be upfront about things and Because, like, for me, like I just don't, I wouldn't want to pretend and then get the job and then like, be like I guess I can't put a picture of me and my you know partner on my desk because I mean, you know, someone's not gonna like it or whatever. The case is right. I thought about these things when I was first dating my wife, when I was presenting as female, and that's when I was like teaching about that, about you know, thinking entry and starting to enter the field, and I Was just, wow, like I'm not gonna be able to put up. I was in like rural. I was like I'm not gonna like put up a picture for me and my wife or like you know, I'm not gonna be able to like talk, like, if kids ask that question, if they don't even boyfriend, like what do I say? Right, like what you know and Like I think it's so important to be able to be upfront and honest with kids and like I just professional boundaries right, like you can be, like that's my personal business also, but I don't think you should have to, you know, like, and so I think it's just important to find a school that shares the same values as you, you know, and it's. I think it's gonna be harder because it's a narrow down right, the school that you could work at, but I think in the long run it's important because you're just gonna get burnt out, like you know. Third of Pretend, you know putting on a show, right, it's like you know, I mean, we're both theater people, but there's a limit, right.

Speaker 1: 39:16

It's funny. I always joke with my students that the best actors that those students have ever seen are their teachers, because we have a whole life outside of this class, right, you have no idea about.

Speaker 2: 39:28

I Love that. Yeah, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 39:32

I mean for final question for the episode. Given your experience, this one, I guess you get it. You get a special question For the young adult who may, or even older adult, who may, be just discovering Themselves and who they are in adulthood. What bits of advice do you have for them? For me personally, I Non-binary didn't exist right when we were younger those words didn't exist oh.

Speaker 2: 40:06

Transgender was like I always tell people. I literally heard, and she probably didn't use the word transgender, but I had heard of one person like change quote-quote changing their gender. One time in my life my mom and I were driving. She doesn't remember this, but it was like scarred for me. We were driving in the car and and she was talking about her work friend and she was like oh Her, she probably used the wrong pronounce. She was like you know her sibling it, you know with a man and you know you know being a woman and like you know she's so ugly I know it's ever gonna love her. She makes a terrible woman and that was the only like. And my parents weren't even like overtly transphobic or homophobic. They didn't realize you know what I mean. They weren't like the kind of people would be like screw gay people, but like. They were like quietly, like that and not really I think it kind of. I was just like that was the only person I'd ever heard of, right. So then one like my friends were like oh you should, you should think about this for you. I was like I don't have a positive Representation or a lot like. And those words didn't you know if they existed, they were. You know they're hiding somewhere where I wasn't hearing them. Like I didn't hear that word literally until my wife sent me that post in my mid 20. Uh, the word transgender, so it's um but anyway I'm sorry. I'm getting away from the question, which was advice now, yes, advice for the.

Speaker 1: 41:29

Oh okay, who is just discovering themselves in their adulthood? Yeah, so I imagine that would be a hard situation.

Speaker 2: 41:36

Yeah, I think the most important thing is to find support, whether it's like whatever city you're in literally just google, like you know, I mean if you're a trans person or whatever, whatever identity you are just like that Seeing support group or like like they're queer, if there's a queer center in your town, like if you don't necessarily have like, uh, you know, maybe support from your family or support from your or friends, right, like Um, there's support out there. And I mean, if you're somewhere where you can't, don't have access to those things, like you're not in a big city, you know there's all my support and things like that. But I think like finding that support, whether it is through people you know in your life or whether it's through a therapist or all these different pieces, because it's really hard to do alone, right, and so I think that's the most important piece for me and that helped me was just like finding my people, right?

Speaker 1: 42:25

I love that. I think that advice can go across the board for anybody dealing with something. Yeah. I think difficult the first year of teaching. Find your support group.

Speaker 2: 42:35

It's really hard to do alone.

Speaker 1: 42:37

Just there's so much like just as humans that we are. We are a community based organism. We need each other, and so I think that is wonderful advice, and I think that it can be so isolating, especially if you're in a rural place, to think that you're just going through this by yourself and that there's nothing.

Speaker 2: 42:58

you know one to help you? Yeah, for sure, and I think we've all been like I don't know in whatever difference from sense in our lives. We're the only one, and it's just like if we're in town, remember that you're not the only one. But also to find those other people, and you know, because it's easy to just be like I'm not alone, but like where you know without support, it's. You know, it's a hard thing to tell yourself.

Speaker 1: 43:23

Absolutely Well. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed our chat and learning about your journey, not only as becoming who you are, but as well as your journey in education, and that you found such a neat environment to be able to work in.

Speaker 2: 43:39

Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 43:40

It's really a pleasure, I know Well.

Speaker 2: 43:45

I mean, we don't have enough time to talk about nonsense, but yes, I mean, you know there's going to be nonsense everywhere, so it's like it might be nonsense in a place where I can be myself.

Speaker 1: 43:56

Absolutely Nonsense in a place where you be yourself. Well, I hope you have a great rest of your day and thank you for joining us on Teaching Well Queer. Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Teaching Well Queer. If you haven't done so already, please consider subscribing on your favorite RSS feed and sharing the podcast with your friends and family. New episodes will come out every other week during the school year. If you're interested in joining us on this Teaching Well Queer podcast, please email us at teachingwellqueerpodcastandcheeseowncom. Have a great day.