Unheard Voices: Kolby Campbell's Account of Being a Queer Teacher in a Small Town

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for LGBTQIA plus teachers, administrators and anyone who works in academia to share their stories. Hi, my name is Brian Stanton, a queer theater educator in San Antonio, texas. Each week, I bring you stories from around the world centered on the experiences of LGBTQIA folks in academia. Thank you for joining me on this journey and enjoy teaching while queer. Hello everyone and welcome back to Teaching While Queer. I am your host, brian Stanton, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Colby Campbell, who is in Carrollton, texas. Hello, colby, how are you doing?

Hello, I'm doing great.

Awesome, thanks for coming. Oh, you're so welcome. So tell me a little bit about yourself. What do you teach? Where, where? Uh well, I already said Carrollton, so tell me what you teach.

Um. Like you, I also teach theater. Um, I've been doing it. This is my seventh year teaching.

Awesome, I'm right behind you. This is my fifth year teaching, so, um, what's it like for you? You, uh, you uh said in your pre-interview questions that you identify as part of the gay portion of the LGBTQIA plus community. Um, and tell me a little bit about your experience when you were a student. What was it like to be a student in the community?

Um, oh man, um, terrible. Um. I grew up in a really small town called Jackson, texas, um, so if any person happens to hear this from there, um, good, they should. Um, they. I was bullied relentlessly Um, all of the really horrible things that you see in movies and TV that happen to um poor little gay kids happen to me. Um, I bet teachers make fun of me. Um, I'm talking about my algebra teacher. Um, his uh, I don't remember his first name, but um, his name was Coach Ballard Um, and I hope he someday hears this Um, but he um literally would make fun of me um in the middle of class and when Brian asked questions um, I remember one time he called me an attention whore Um, because I was confused. Um, and then I came one day, or I came, I came to class one day and he had rearranged the the room um and gave us a seating chart and I was sat in the middle while everybody else sat around me um so that they can make fun of me. Uh, he would even like bark at me in the middle of taking quizzes, um, it was. It was so bad um that um, I had I'd theater right after Um, and I went to my theater teacher crying because they wouldn't um, my counselors wouldn't let me get into the other class. They said that it was too full. Oh, and I remember going in and I was crying and my high school theater teacher, who is still like a mother to me, um, she said I'll be right back and um, she walked on all the way to the other side of the campus and she came back with a brand new schedule. Um, but you know, I've had death threats. I've had, um, I've been like kicked out of parties. I've um, I've had my clothes stolen out of my locker, thrown in the trash can. I've had my backpack thrown um on top of our high school, like thrown in trash cans. Look, you name it. It happened. The only thing that never happened is people were too afraid to actually fight me in case that, um, they were scared that I was going to look on.

Nice, well, I have a little bit of power there, right, or a little bit of a. It's a tiny one. Um, that is probably the most shocking story that I've heard thus far as far as the physical side of uh, of the bullying that you experienced, because in my own experience, like I had, um, I had a band director, we, we cycled through band directors when I was in high school, uh, several of them in and out, and the second one to come in would literally call me a faggot in front of everybody, um and whatnot, and that was probably the extent of what I experienced from, like, an educator, um, so knowing that there were educators out there who are actively participating in the bullying, I think is just mind boggling. And it's not, we're not very old, so it's not that long ago. And some of these people still work in education, and so, um, it's just I hope for his sake that he's had a change of heart and has changed how he approaches people.

Um, because, in this instance, I mean there's. I had a another coach, um and it's really funny that there's always coaches Um, so that was my freshman year. I coached Ballard Ballard my freshman year, which was in 2009. Um, and the year prior I had this man named Coach Estherbrook, who, um, funny enough the, either the. I think it was either the year after he left or the two years after um. He was actually on the news, um, because he was representing himself, um in court because he had hit he was subbing in a class and he had hit a girl in the back of the head with a water bottle, um, so that should tell you a lot about this man. But, uh, he had a came up to me once and he was like Campbell, I have a question for you. And I was like um, what's up? And he was like are you gay? And I looked at him and I remember saying um, I'm, I'm, I'm so sorry, I don't feel like that's any of your business. And he said well, I just need to know, because if you are, I don't want you in the locker room with my voice.

Jesus, it's so funny to me how, um how there's so much fear over one person infiltrating a group, when really the dynamic is that the group is going to be the one that overpower the, the one person. That's the thing that I find so mind boggling about. Like these bathroom laws and people worrying about locker rooms and whatnot is like if something's going to happen, it's going to be the one person that get hurt, not the other way around.

Yeah, um oh don't even start on the bathroom laws. That's how I lost my whole family.

Oh my, God, I'm sorry about that. Well, that's fair, that's fair. Sometimes that's what's needed, wow. So, thinking about your, your life, then, as an educator, how do you think that those experiences they have to have had a huge impact on how you treat your own students?

Oh, big time, oh, big time. It's actually why I became a teacher. More specifically, it's why I became a theater teacher, because, you know, theater in English are very close to one another. It was always my. It was my theater teacher and my English teachers who always actually treated me like a person. And my high school theater teacher her name is Donna Finner and she's honestly an icon and can do no wrong in my eyes. But she I would get a little like emotional about it, but she was the only person on that campus that ever made me feel like it was okay to be me. And then it was like okay for me to be able to explore the boundaries of life itself and to kind of feel and to be and to be able to be people who, you know, cared and people who really wanted me around and wanted me to be a part of everything. And she made me feel like I wasn't a loser and I wanted to make sure that every kid that I had come across, every student that I had, always feels like they one have a place where they belong. Two, where they can literally let go of every single thing outside of the classroom and whenever they're with me, and to know that they at least have one person on that campus who will literally roll up to teachers' doors if they are proving to have a problem and have done that, and I have. I have given some teachers a little knock knock to be like what's your deal? But like that's, I mean, yeah, and I look at every kid like they're a young me, whether or not they're a part of the community or, you know, are kids of color or, you know, just your average, like rag tag kid. That's just kind of there. And I always think to myself, like you know, how would I have handled this situation, like how would I want a teacher to come at me with this? And that's what I try to instill in my kids and that's one thing that I always complimented on in all of my evaluations. And if somebody comes to watch my class or there's like a new, we get like a tech director or anything like that. They're always like how are you so good at like building relationships with your kids and making them feel like they belong, like almost immediately. And my answer is always like I don't know. But I think it plays a big part with you know, this idea that I have of you know you don't have to respect me because I'm your teacher. I want you to respect me because you feel like I deserve it and that you love me enough to give me that respect. And so far, I mean it's it's done me pretty good.

That's fantastic. I think it's so interesting because that's a question I think that a lot of theater teachers get. We go out of our way to make sure that we build those relationships and almost every teacher training I've ever been to for theater educators, at all of our conferences, there's some element or some Part of each presentation that focuses on the relationship building, because if we do that, we mitigate the problems before they happen. And I think that it's so interesting that it's like that's the one thing people take away from. Our portion of education is like I want more of that relationship building aspect of things and sometimes I sit there and I'll spend the first three weeks relationship building and playing games and getting to know people and whatnot. And in other classes my students are already moving on to things like on day three, moving on to content, and while I understand that the core content areas it's a very structured calendar I think that they probably would benefit from more relationship building, would benefit the flow in the classroom management side of things later on. And yeah, I think that theater teachers have this crazy, crazy way of just connecting and maybe we should all go out and just teach PD on it.

The world. The classrooms would be so much better if we could better, if the core teachers just stopped looking at us like we were bullies, because we're always sticking up for our kids and if they actually just started listening and like asking for advice, because I always tell my call beings or people that I'm talking. When we're talking like pedagogy, I always tell them. It's one of those things that I often get called out and people like I during COVID, we were like hybrid learning or when you're online learning Some of our core teachers were just they were giving a ridiculous amount of homework. They were giving bell ringers that we're going to take more than five minutes and then they were taking the entire 90 minutes where they had this huge amount of like work that they needed to accomplish that there was no way they were going to finish and then, on top of all of this stuff that they hadn't finished yet, they needed to do additional homework on top of it. So I would have kids who were coming to my class like crying on the Zoom and were just like Campbell I can't do your work because I have to do all of this other work. And there's a faculty meeting that we had and I like unmuted myself and I was like I have a question. And I just sort of called it out and one of the assistant principals pulled me aside after and talked to me because apparently in the words of one of the core teachers I was, apparently I had said that core classes don't matter and that my class is more important. And it's really funny because those words never came out of my mouth. It was always it's always student centered. And so, like I just I wish that they would listen a little bit more and ask more questions because, like I always tell my kids, like you know, I have the luxury of being able to give more time or take it away, because we're not. You know, I don't have a particular curriculum. I get to teach what I want, when I want, how I want, and I don't have to worry about some sort of state mandated calendar that's breathing down my neck. And I always tell them, like you get to when you come in here. You get to, you know, express yourself, you get to be yourself, you get to create. Again you get to. I tell them that they get to reopen their metaphorical creative eyeball. Again, they always think I'm goofy and funny for it, but I'm like it's true, you know, I give you all of these really vague, like a very broadly stroked instructions and for the first like nine weeks, they freak out about it and they're always like, what exactly do you want on this project? And I'm like I don't know. Be creative, just do it, don't think too hard, just go. And then by the end of the year, you know they're like they don't even need me. They're like God, don't worry, we got. I'm like thank God, like I'm so proud of you for like, actually, like you've rubbed the little crust off of your creative third eye and you're like here we go, we're going to run with it.

Yeah, absolutely that. A lot of what you just said I think comes down to. There's like this push and even in me going, educators are humans. We need to be treated like we're human beings, right. But then also there seems to be a push back sometimes where students aren't treated as humans by educators and that idea that like we just have to keep going and going and going because of the calendar and not recognize the humanity of the world and the things that are happening in the world has been a huge issue during the pandemic, I think, and it's funny because it's like that. The phrase post pandemic keeps getting thrown around and I really don't feel like anything's post about it. But, we are in this place where we were moving on with life right, and there are still people dealing with illness, there are still people out sick, there's still people who have PTSD from being locked in their home for however long, and until we can address all of those things, the pushing and the pushing and the pushing forward just seems like it's doing such a disservice to these young folks and then, when they get to be adults, the older adults are just going to complain about them because they are not performing the way they want them to, what they didn't give them the time to grow. Yeah, and so I think that there's a balance here of humanity that needs to be brought back into education, that not only are educators humans and, like parents, and administration need to realize that administration are humans, students are humans and that humanity needs to be really brought to the core of our curriculum. And I think that's where social emotional learning can help. And it's such a buzzword like people are throwing it around like crazy, but what's actually being done, like I've I've seen curriculum out there that's about teaching character and whatnot, and and what ends up happening is a lot of eye-rolling, when really the social emotional learning side of things could be a conversation where a teacher is like you know what? You all look real beat up today, real tired, real beat up. What, if we just take a moment, will? We'll just chat and like Tell me how things are going and then at the end of the chat, if we feel like we're ready to move on, then we'll move on like is it going to kill us to make one day every once in a while about the kids and not the content Right, especially since it's supposed to be about?

Exactly and like that's the thing that has been grinding my years since quarantine started was a. It really poked a hole in the fabric of like what we all had assumed education was. And Now there's so many people, and even like I'm guilty of it myself Like I am exhausted and I'm tired and I miss the way things used to be because they had, you know, like 12 plus years of them learning like this is what it's supposed to be like, this is what being a student is, this is what going to school is like. And now we're having to kind of rewrite the like, the history books of like no, actually, this is what it should be like, this is what it would look like. And you know, so often we people in general, like they just forget that like kids are still kids and like things. And it's, it's so funny because they always ask us in these pd things right, they're always like, think about that one really great teacher. You had something that they told you. Now, on the flip side, think about the one horrible teacher you had and what did they say? You know, remember that like the things that you say you stick with people for, for they can stick with them for a really long time and I'm like, no, yeah, that's exactly correct. But also it works other ways too. You know, the one of the issues that we had or that I had During, you know, like hybrid learning, was we, you know, bless our, our admin, because that they tried, they did, but it was almost like it was too much, like they were trying way too hard to Lean into this like toxic positivity, and it was always like everything is great, you guys are so awesome, you get to wear jeans and I'm like we're hybrid learning, like what does it matter, you know? And I had a, I had a really hard time during the hybrid learning Mentally, you know, I I Ended up in a facility Because I just I couldn't handle the pressure because there was a lot of that, because I'm the kind of person, the kind of teacher that I am, is I literally am so so in when it comes to making sure them, every single one of my kids, feel like they belong and feel like they're seen and they're heard, and Hybrid learning completely destroyed that for me, because it was I, even though I was greeting them every like, you know I, every morning, you know I'd be like Good morning Brian, good to see you. Good morning, cool, we go to see you. So got to share here from this morning and, even though I was still being very personal with them, it just wasn't working and they so many of my kids felt left behind and they felt like they Didn't learn anything and they didn't feel like I cared and it broke me. I mean it truly. It broke me and you know I, you know I almost didn't make it, because so much of my identity as an educator is placed into my environment and making sure that they feel great and feel wonderful, and I couldn't give them that and I didn't know how to fix it and nobody, nobody around me could To could give me the proper advice because, you know, they themselves couldn't figure it out and we had this horrible Analogy and they were like oh well, you know, just think about, think about your basket of balls. Some of them are plastic, some of them are glass. You don't want to drop the glass ones. And One of my admin had asked me you know which of your balls are glass and which of them are plastic? And I remember Saying I don't know, you tell me. And I started going through everything that I was having to deal with. And they didn't have an answer and they were like they all seem like their glass balls and I said exactly so, which one of these would you like me to drop? And she didn't have an answer for me and like that's when my little spiral started and I was just like, okay, like I can't, I can't do this anymore, and I mean it was just, it's just rough and I just wish that people would, would would listen to the kids, because you know, we don't. We don't give them enough credit. They're so much smarter than we give them credit for and it just seems like nobody listens to them and that's what makes them very angry.

Yep, that idea of being if you're not heard, then you're not seen, and I think that's so powerful. Also, I just want to thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your story. Because, definitely during hybrid learning. It was a really hard time and there's this weird thing happening where and it goes back to the conversation we had a little bit earlier about humanity and that everybody in the room is a human I experienced some things with my students during that time where it was like I had my students feel like they did that I didn't care, even though on my back end, I'm doing everything I possibly can to to make make this enjoyable a learning experience, try to give them performance opportunity, virtual plays, all the things right, and and there was this vibe of just like, well, he doesn't care, and it's. It's interesting to me because there was a shift at that moment with that set of students where it was like my value is placed in how much they can see me doing yeah, not how, and it really had nothing to do with how much I cared, but they perceived my caring by how much I was producing for them, which ended up being a toxic environment for me, yeah, and so there's this interesting kind of Balance I think that the world needs to get back to, of respecting everybody and realizing and seeing not only what people are doing, but how they're doing it and and the effort that they're putting into it and not focusing solely on product, but really talking about process, which is a hundred percent what we're supposed to be teaching as theater educators. Right like the learning happens during the process. The product is the fancy thing that your parent gets to watch, but the process is where you actually do the learning. When you're on stage, you might have an epiphany moment every once in a while as a performer during a show or a technician during a show, but really you're having several of those during the rehearsal process or the build process and whatnot. And so I think that this shift needs to happen with regard to how we view people and focusing on people as a process and not a product. And it's so funny because there's so much terminology out there. You think about marketing and buzzwords, and they're like you're a brand, Everything about you is a brand. And now we're social media and you're a brand, and I'm like no, you're a person. Yes, yes and so like how do we just like play up your person-ness? Because if you can recognize that you're a person and the person across from you is also a person, there are like bridges that we can build. There are so much, there's so much community that can happen, and then the amount of stress I think people will be under will be significantly reduced because of the fact that we're recognizing humans for humans, person for person.

Very not.

Yeah.

And like one of the one of the, the, I do have to give my my school credit where credit is due, because once, once, all of that happened with me. You know they've been incredibly supportive. You know they, they check on me a little bit more, which like pardon me, doesn't like some of very like keep my cards to the to my chest kind of guy. But you know they've been very supportive of me being open about the entire situation, because there's such a stigma around mental health still like in 2022, which is wild to me, and what I've been able to do, or at least just like in my classes, is, you know they, they they're able to acknowledge it and we're able to have these conversations and then they know they're not alone and they, they can see me and they can see you know it's, it's like you know, knowing that that young gay kids sees me and says I can be that, I can be that adult, so I'm going to keep going. Now, not only do I have little gay kids who are looking at me saying I can do this Like I can, I can keep going, I can grow into an adult and I can get through all of the horrible negative that could be happening. But now it's the rest of my kiddos who are looking at me and they're saying you know what? Mr Campbell went through some stuff. He went. He he almost was not here with us and you know we can do it too. If he can do it, we can. And my admin has, you know, been incredible. It seems like they really learned from everything that happened, like during hybrid learning, and it's like they really started to listen and now it feels like they're always just a couple of steps ahead of all of us and they're like ready to take care of us whenever we, you know, whenever something is needed and you know that's. That's something that I know a lot of teachers worldwide can say that they have. And I do feel incredibly lucky because I do have a very supportive admin team. I mean, I literally went to my principal to ask him a question about a show and he was like I trust you, like you've been here, you've never steered us in the wrong direction, like you've got this and as a theater teacher, so if any of the theater teachers are listening, like you know, like that is like that pinnacle moment where you know you've made it within your admin, where they're like you got this. I'm not worried and you know they've just been incredible, honestly, and they continue to do it. You know they've even a friend of mine and I during all of this because we started having issues with some, some microaggressions and some dead naming and things like that. So they literally let a friend and a friend of mine and I do the school wide PD about microaggressions and about how to teach kids of color and how to teach kids in the LGBTQ community and it was so well received that they they're down to have us do it again. And I still get questions. You know, during in service, I literally had a paraprofessional kind of home aside and was like I'm still really confused on pronouns and some other things that can you help me? And you know, and I just kept telling her, you know it's it's intent, it's the intent in which you are approaching it all. You know it's just, it's wild to me that almost you know, two and a half years later, these lessons that we taught in. You know, a 30 minute PD, that is not nearly enough time. No, it's still resonating so heavily with everybody and that they feel comfortable enough to come and ask questions. And I think that this is a lot about a campus's culture, whenever the teachers feel comfortable enough to have those really hard conversations with people in that particular marginalized community.

Absolutely, and I think it's fantastic that you are lucky enough to get an admin who was taking notes and like thinking ahead and now is able to anticipate some things or at least even just checking in. And then you're just checking in with people because I think that you're right worldwide there's so many people, so many teachers, who are like dang. I wish I had that.

Yeah.

And I mean you reaching the pinnacle of. I trust you. You haven't steered us wrong. I love that Because I almost married my first year.

I swear to God, I am my first year at this school. I nearly got fired. I mean, I was the second year teacher. I made some stupid mistakes. I talked to the wrong person. Like I asked some questions like no one ever really tells you the difference between, like middle school administration and high school administration and how, like you can always find a middle school principal they are always there. High school not so much like there's. So there's so much more happening for high school principals and you know, I asked the wrong question to the wrong person and that person steered me in the wrong direction and it was awful, it was horrible and I cried a lot. And you know, a couple years later, my principal, who is amazing, was like you know, Gable, you've come a long way. I'm like, yeah, from you nearly fired me to being like hey, kid, you're great, Like yeah.

I think that's a long way. It's funny my previous school district because I'm in a new district this year I was teacher of the year last year, which is super cool, like really, really awesome, and the majority of that focused on my work with, like, character education, social, emotional learning, because I helped run campaigns for the school and I also did some work within my theater department. We did a lot of philanthropy and we talked about, like, what it means to step into a person's life as an actor and how you can use that in life, as you know, relating to people and whatnot. You know, as we all do in theater. And it was wild for me because at the same time, I was simultaneously the teacher of the year, the pinnacle of what you could be for the school district, but also not trusted at all to do work that was relevant, challenging but also, like, appropriate for the district. Because the school district would hear from like three people some complaints after I sold 2000 tickets to a show, or 1000 tickets or show, or even 500 or whatever, but we would have all these number of people seeing the show, participating, actively, involved, three people who were never going to go but saw a poster complaining, and so I became like tarnished, like I had this scarlet letter of complaints because three people would complain, even though thousands of people over the course of my time there, my four years there, saw shows that we produced. And it's so interesting because that getting to that place of like I trust you shouldn't be that difficult because we are professionals and I mean I was required to fill out a form that said I wouldn't put sexual content on stage and I was like I treat these kids like they're my kids, like I have children, personal children, and I treat my students as if they're like my personal. why would I do that? Why would I do anything that has sexual content like, or that would be explicit like that? I don't even like my students cussing and we had like two shows in the four years I was there that had cuss words in it and we talked about them as part of the process. We talked about them before the show as part of a talk back and we did all of these things to prepare for that, to make sure everybody felt comfortable and safe. I'm still not trustworthy and it's hard for me because I look at the history and I see cisgender male, cisgender male, cisgender female, cisgender male, non-binary queer teacher and all of a sudden the red flags are flying and the teacher prior to me put like shows with kids smoking out on stage and like doing all this stuff that I would never do. But because I am the odd one out, I was questioned and so it's just. It's been a really interesting experience and I'm so happy to be in a new district because I already feel much more trusted by my administration because they looked at what I've actually done and that even the quote unquote controversial. So it's like I've done carry the musical before and they carry the musical. Yeah, it's a bit controversial, it has cuss words in it and you know what I did. I raised money for anti-cyber bullying campaign and like sent it off to David's Legacy Foundation. Like I found a way to talk about the issues with the show and turn it into something that we can positively impact the community and my new administration saw that part of it and we're like, okay, I get it, I see what you're doing and so it's nice and I'm glad that you're in a place where you feel trusted and I'm in a place where I'm getting there, you know that's one of the things like we're professionals yeah, well, and like the thing is and it's like so funny because one of the things that we that's like the foundation of what we teach, the foundation of theater is that the whole point, the whole reason theater exists is to literally shine a light onto something that's happening.

And it's like to like poke fun at like the reality of everything and to educate and to show people like this is what's real, this is what's happening, learn from it. And it's always so funny to me when people get offended, because it's like when you're getting offended at reality, like it's a little bit more dramatized, but you are literally getting offended this exact thing happens and you're not offended by that, but you want to be offended by this because, got it, that makes zero sense, friend, like that is wild to me. And no, and I totally, and I totally get the whole kind of odd ball out, kind of kind of stitch, because you know when, like I took over like a legacy program, you know before, I mean I guess, I mean I, I've all, I'm like a, I feel like sometimes like I'm an ostrich, I keep my head in the ground, but like when I was hired the school that I'm hired at, the one of the, where I teach. Some of the biggest names in Texas theater have been there and you know I had huge shoes to huge shoes to fill. And you know, here I was like this, like young kid who was coming in and was like having to feel like I had to be perfect right off the bat because I had just taken over for you know, someone who's in, like the, the, like a speech hall of fame. You know they were a speech teacher and then fought to be the theater teacher, did that for two years and then left to go back into speech again and then, prior to that, you know, there was a couple of people here and there and there was like a revolving door for a bit and then before that was this woman who is very wildly known. She's very popular in our little, a little crowd and before that kind of the same thing with the other people who have been there. So it's wild because, like I'm the only how do I say this? I'm like the only openly person in our community. I mean, I don't know about any of the rest of the people, because you know it's like when someone weaves, like why would you talk to them, right? and I've met them and we've had some conversations and they didn't have very nice things to say about where I'm at and that's. You know, that's their. They're entitled to their own opinions and good for them. I'm that they've moved on and you know I wish them the best of luck, but I feel like I've done. I love where I'm at most days. I mean, obviously there's always, there's always those days, but you know I'm the only like super, kind of like a feminine, like I'm short and shrubby and barely gay. So it's just kind of like, well, here I am and you know I ruffled a lot of feathers my first year because apparently prior to me there was lots of favoritism and casting for musicals. And you know there was a kid told me once, you know like, well, if you weren't in theater and inquired, the choir teacher wouldn't let you be in the musical. So she just like wouldn't cast you, she wouldn't let you be cast. And she had this one particular favorite and she always gets the lead in everything. And she didn't get the lead in high school musical. She was still in it and she and I gave her, you know she had played. She was the lead in Cinderella, she was the lead in Sound of Music. So all of these characters that don't really have to act, you know they're good characters to play. There's no real depth to those characters and you know, when we did high school musical, we all know Gabriella is the same way. Gabriella has no real personality, she's just sort of there and she's pretty and she can sing and like that's great. And a castor is Kelsey, who does have a personality and has a really nice little arc. That happens and you know we saw the conversation of like. You know, when you, when you watch like Romeo and Juliet, you know the people who play Romeo and Juliet are gonna be incredible. But it's the Mercutio and the nurse and the Tybalt who you are gonna walk out thinking dang, they were so good and she like nailed it. And I had also cast, you know my and this will never be wild to me because my school is so diverse but I cast a white kid as Troy and coach Bolton was black and I will never forget. After we do a meet and greet so the parents can come up and they take pictures with the kids on stage, with the set and all that, and a parent who has graduated painfully came up to me and said you know it's, it's kind of kind of strange Troy was white, but coach Bolton was black. But I don't understand. And I remember like I looked at this woman and I swear I felt like my eyes like popped out of my head and my jaw hit the floor because I was like, okay, well, first of all, they're fictional characters, they're high school kids, like in this fictional high school that busts out into song randomly, but like that, okay, cool. And I just kind of told her I was like, well, there's adoption there's, there's mixed families there's, you know, foster families there's, you know it could be a step parent. But also like, why does it matter? It shouldn't. And I was just kind of like, thank you for coming to see the show, like have a great day, you know. And so it's just like, yeah, I get it.

I get the whole kind of being like singled out for being like the one who does things different and it's just stupid yeah, it's just an interesting thing, especially that conversation you were just having, because, like I've got four kids and my kids are Mexican and black and I am definitely white like I don't know why it's so hard for people to grasp that it's why it really is. So let's talk a little bit about what it's been like for you working with students. So you've got such a diverse group of students at your campus. Have you ever had any issues where you've had to confront students or parents who are who are not supportive of the LGBTQ community?

not directly yeah, it's one. It's funny because I all I and I do you've met me like we haven't seen each other in real life. There is no part of me that's intimidating. I literally flounders into a room and I'm like and my kids are frightened of me, like to their absolute core and I always find it so funny. And then, like they're always like Campbell, you're just so intimidating like we never know. You're like, you're just, you should never know what's gonna happen. And I'm like you guys come on now, like yes, you do, like actually pay attention, like thank critically, you'll know. But a couple of years ago I had a parent well, they was the students grandparents. They had custody of him and this kid loved me so much, you know, he bless him. He just was never gonna be in our advanced class but he auditioned every year, he auditioned for every show and he was so sweet. And his grandmother was also very kind, so kind that whenever we had to have auditions online, she stood on the other side of the computer and was feeding him the lines because he didn't have it memorized, which was so funny to me, but also so cute that somebody was that supportive. But I think he was his sophomore year or maybe his junior year, because we have, you know, several meet the teacher nights throughout the year and it was like the first one. And they came and they're very nice to my face, very respectful, very like oh, we're so thankful for you, thank you for everything you do for our kid. I'm like, yeah, no problem, it's literally my job. But they went to my friend's classroom and they were trying to never not be funny to me. They were trying to describe me and the only thing that the grandfather could say was you know that that faggot teacher. And I was like. Whenever they told me, I was like oh boy, of course, of course, of course. That's the only thing they could think of, not the theater teacher, the Faggot teacher. And I addressed it whenever their class came the next time. I obviously didn't call the kid out specifically because that's horrible and rude. Hey, just so we're all on the same page, the things that your family say while they're on campus can get back to us. And I was like, and I really don't appreciate somebody's parental figure referring to me as that Faggot teacher. I'm not going to address it with them. I feel like that should be something more from you to talk to them about. But if you all tell me how much you love me and care for me, but just know that that's incredibly hurtful. But as far as I know that's kind of the only thing. I have had kids who were switched out of my class just very suspiciously.

You've been there.

It's something that I feel like we should be used to as people in the queer community, because we know why. We know why they randomly show up one day and then they're gone the next. We know. And then all of my straight friends will be like, well, no, it could be because of this or that. And I'm like, no, you don't get it because you're not in this little exclusive club. But it's apparent, it's obvious whenever they sit down and they have this crazy reactionary moment of oh my God, this isn't going to be it for me. Oh, there was another time. Okay, there was during hybrid learning. Everybody was supposed to wear masks and there was this one particular, these two particular kids who weren't your run of the mill EE people and they just would not wear it. They would put it on and the moment you walked away, they would take it off, and then they would finally turn to them and I was like, look, I don't care what you do outside of here, but while you were here, you're not about to put my life in danger because you want to be reckless with your own. Either wear the mask or stop coming. Stay at home, learn online, sit in your beds, I don't care. And soon as I walked away, you could hear you know, oh, he's such a fatty but he can't stand hand-to-hand, blah, blah, blah. And I was just like I turned around and I was just kind of like man, if you're gonna call me names, do it to my face. Like if you want to talk about the grown-up, we can have a conversation like gross. I hate lunch duty for that exact reason, because you get stuck with all of the children who literally are gonna like go after you for no reason. This girl and I had her sister, which is really funny because her sister was like I love you so much, my God, you're so nice, you're so great. But her sister was a terror, like my God. And it got on to her because she was doing something. Somebody else had asked me a question about the rules and I was trying to explain them and she like cut me off and was like stop talking. And I was like wait a minute, sweet girl, hold on Now, don't speak to me like that, like that's not what we're about to do, like absolutely not. And I corrected the behavior and she like tried to argue with me and I just remember being like I'm not doing this with you, I'm gonna walk away and if you wanna sit here and be angry, live your life. But like I'm not playing this game with you, like I'm good, I'm grown and you're a child, Like I'm not gonna argue with a kid. So when I walked away and I'll never forget it because she goes man, I hate those white gay men that always act like black women and I just kind of stopped and I looked at her and I was like what I'm not? First of all, I was like I grew up in a really small town where everyone talks this way. You know, like I grew up very like Southern Belle, bless your heart. You know, like I'm gonna, if I'm gonna, speak to you, it's gonna be a very particular kind of way and I just remember saying like that is incredibly rude for you to make some sort of assumption like that and like even to this day. You know this is like two years ago and I think she's a senior this year. But every time I pass her she just gives me the nastiest looks and I'm like hey, girl, I hope you have a really great day. Bye, have a good one. Just wild, like it's just feral, feral behavior.

Indeed, I had an issue, like last week or something, where some kids were screaming in the lobby of the auditorium and there was an orchestra rehearsal happening and I just walked by and I was like, hey, they're rehearsing right there, can you not scream? And as I was walking out the door, they're like I'm good. And I was like, oh hey, thanks for the attitude, not necessary, you don't have to be in this room, you can leave now. And it was just so funny to think that they like this. I can talk back and it's fine.

Right. They have the audacity, the gall and the gumption Gumption To literally be like I can just talk to you. However, it's way, because you're not my actual teacher. Maybe if you don't think for one second like I'm an energy master, I'm not gonna let anyone, admin included, speak to me some type of way. If you think I'm gonna let a 14 year old talk to me, however, which way they want to, you have me confused, because no, ma'am, absolutely not, absolutely not.

Indeed, as we wrap up, I have one final question for you. What advice would you give to the young teacher coming in who is queer and maybe nervous about stepping into academia for the first time as a teacher?

Don't seek validation in what other teachers are doing. You carve your own way. Find your own past questions, find your likeness, find the people who align with you. Don't try to kind of bend and mold yourself into that generic teacher mold. Be you and don't be afraid like. Be authentically and unapologetically yourself, and if someone then has an issue with it, then you just don't belong there and you move on and you find where you do belong, because when you find it it opens doors and it changes lives and you end up in a place that you are going to be very happy with and happy at and where you don't feel like you have to call your boyfriend girlfriend, your roommate Because I know that's what we do for the first, however long, and it's never. Shy away from continuously learning and being the beacon of light for those of us who never had one or didn't have one prior to you. And remember that at the end of the day, you learn just as much from these rag tag, goofy little feral woodland children that you would learn from a book or learn from your administrators or someone else speaking to you. Never be afraid to ask the kids questions, because they will gladly answer them and they will respect you so much more for it and have fun. And when you no longer have fun, it's time to go.

That part right there, absolutely. Hey, colby, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it and your vulnerability and just sharing so much about your experience and so much of yourself with your students Like it's really powerful and I think that it's just what people needed to hear. So thank you so much.

Oh, thank you, that's been great.

All right, have a great day.

You too, you too you too.

You too. Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Teaching While Clear. If you haven't done so already, please consider subscribing on your favorite RSS feed and sharing the podcast with your friends and family. New episodes will come out every other week during the school year. If you're interested in joining us on this teaching while clear podcast, please email us at tgwellqueerpodcast at gwellcom. Have a great day, thank you.