Pioneering Queer Advocacy in Schools and Beyond with Ed Sparan

Bryan (he/they): 0:27

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for 2SLGBBTQIA+ educational professionals to share their experiences in academia. Hi, I'm your host, Bryan Stanton, a theater pedagogy and educator in New York City, and my goal is to share stories from around the world from 2SLGBTQIA+ educators. I hope you enjoy Teaching While Queer. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, Bryan Stanton. Today I have the honor to speak with Ed Sparan. Hi, ed, how are you doing? Hi there, how are you? Nice to meet you? It's so nice to meet you. I'm excited for our time today. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you identify within the community in your work in education?

Ed (he/him): 1:17

Okay, yes, so I'm older, so I identify as a gay man and kind of old school I guess. So I feel like there's the old generation and the new generation, so I'm learning about the new generation and representing the older generation at times. Born in Connecticut, I had a situation at 16 where I was coming home from school and someone was robbing my parents' home and they attacked me. I was stabbed, my face was beaten and it was a very traumatic situation. I was very shy and quiet, the fat little kid hiding my homosexuality. This situation, which was not a gay bashing but just an unfortunate situation, kind of opened me up to not be shy anymore and really started my journey to be out of the closet and discover myself Both as a gay man and just as a person, because I was just shy and closeted for my years. This happened at 16. So, with the reconstruction of my face and taking voice lessons to learn how to breathe again, I was breathing from my diaphragm and learning how to sing. I always wanted to be in show business but was too shy, so graduated in high school in 81 and immediately got on that train and went straight to New York, lived right in the Greenwich Village, in Jane Street, right in the heart of it all, and I dove into homosexuality with both feet. So I was an openly gay man, very proud of it, and working in theater as an actor. It was a double whammy because it was the rejection of being a gay man and not being the handsome, good-looking guy but the fat, funny one. So going to additions being rejected, and then also too, within the gay community, learning about myself entering my adulthood and the negative reactions there, living in the AIDS epidemic 80s in New York City, so there was a lot of negativity. On top of that I learned that acting wasn't my thing and I was better suited to writing and directing, and so that's where it kind of led me into teaching, being a teacher and teaching acting and teaching directing. Later on, in 1991, I ended up getting a job in San Francisco at the PWA Theater. So that really connected my two passions of working in the gay community, the HIV community, and teaching and directing. It was a wonderful job. Later on in 1994, I left California and moved here to Florida where I've been for 30 years, three decades, and so since then I've just been so active in my community in many different aspects and many different genres, the leather community, the drag community, the bear community, all of them connecting each one and making sure we all connect with one another. My years of community service and education led me to be the director of the World AIDS Museum and Educational Center. So a group of us started it. After four years of raising the money, we opened the doors and then for six years I was the executive director there giving tours. We would go into the schools and educate students on this situation. We had galleries and art exhibits, educational programs. My favorite thing in the world was when these I even I remember. I tell you I get very emotional because to have that yellow school bus pull up to the World AIDS Museum and have these kids get out of the bus on a class trip and for me to sit there and just give them a tour and tell them our story, our story, and it was just the brightest moment of my entire life. Things changed there and I left the museum and so now I work for Broward Health, the large medical conglomerate here, clinics and hospitals, and so there I educate in HIV as well. I do prep. I'm still very involved in the community, so I do things on my own in the community and with Broward Health I do a HIV education to Covenant House to run away teens still in the high schools and teaching. And here in Fort Lauderdale and Broward County we have the Gay and Lesbian Community Center and we have a wonderful Gay and Lesbian Community Center. It's five acres of land and buildings and on that building we have a four-story senior housing development. It was just built three years ago and I'm there, so I'm so gay. I live at the Gay and Lesbian Community Center. My front door is that. So it's a wonderful life of just being involved in the community 24-7 and living in the heart of it. And I never chose teaching. It kind of chose me to educate my community and be a mentor.

Bryan (he/they): 6:35

I think that's so beautiful, because so much of what you talked about is necessary. The school bus is pulling up and learning about HIV and AIDS from people who actually experience it, as opposed to like what you can see on the media, which is just so angry all the time and it's it's coming from the wrong sources, like I do feel like gay men in the 80s justifiably needed to have anger. It's the anger against the gay men that I'm like yo. These people are dying and you're angry and just spreading so much hate. And like I grew up I was born in the 80s and so I grew up in the 90s coming out of just seeing all of this stuff as a kid that was happening in New York and San Francisco and whatnot, and like that was that was it. When I came out, my parents told me they're worried I'm gonna get HIV or AIDS and die, and like that was the only route that there was for a person like me or a person like us was to get AIDS and die. And so the work that organizations like yours did to kind of help remove the stigma I mean it's still not gone, but like you really did a lot of work to horrible, like reality that was lived in the 80s to make it, I guess, safer for us. So thank you.

Ed (he/him): 8:08

No, thank you. In the pre-questionnaire, one of the questions and I forget which one it was, but I think that kind of makes me feel the difference between the older community and the new generation is fear. As a 23 year old man, I went to bed and had sex with a man and it was a life and death situation and you were aware of it at that exact moment and you made life and death choices right then and there on the bed. And that's what's not part of the new generation. Oh, they're gonna get HIV, I'll just take a pill, you know. And we can talk to a blue in the face about the fears back then, but they can. The young generation never really truly, truly truly understands the fear just being gay and walking down the street and could get gay bashed that fear. I think all of our decisions as an older generation were based in fear fear for telling our parents fearful, our bosses finding out. So now, when they make these choices, am I gay? Where do I work? Who do I sleep with? That fear is not attached to them.

Bryan (he/they): 9:21

I think that's so fair and I live in the cusp right, like I'm between the generations, and so I had that fear when I was younger and then now, as you know, an almost 40 year old adult one. I'm just happy to be here representing, you know, the 40 year old queer people, because when I was a kid they didn't really exist, because you know there was a whole generation of men that died, and that stuff I find incredibly heartbreaking. Like I cannot watch anything that has to deal with the AIDS epidemic without like feeling hollow for a couple of days. And I don't know if that's just because I'm a very empathic person and I feel lots of things, or like part of me feels like we each share in the trauma that happened before us. Like I think about things that happen in history and I feel the trauma and I like I don't take ownership of it, but like it feels like when I say things like that could have been me, it then becomes real for me.

Ed (he/him): 10:29

Well, it is that exact word right there trauma, post traumatic stress syndrome trauma. I'm 60 years old, I'm 20 years, hiv positive boy, do I have trauma and I fix that and I heal that by doing and giving back. And a lot of times I talk like being living in the village. In the middle of it, the the war war. I saw many men die in my hands, around me, and so the amount of men that I saw pass away was more than my father in the Korean War seeing men pass away in war. I do believe that gay men have that same trauma that our fathers had in going to war, korean war, that non-war, whatever it might be those men. Our fathers had trauma from war related to death and grieving, and so do we, but it's not looked at that way because we were having fun at going to bars, so they don't look at that as a war, but to me it was a war.

Bryan (he/they): 11:39

Yeah, I, um, I. I agree with you there because if you look at the media from the time period, there is a political war happening and I've gone on this tangent Um and other episodes. I used to want to be a historian and my big thesis was that we are still fighting the civil war. It just changed venues, um, and that's one of those venue changes. It went to the media and we have conservative people saying that, like, these people are wrong because they're different and let them die, and that kind of stuff I think is so inhumane and for people to be like America is great and wonderful and I'm just like, look at the generations and centuries of American leaders being like it's okay to let those people die.

Ed (he/him): 12:36

Yeah, and I feel like I'm. I go out to a bar and the other day and I just passed two years I got diabetic deropathy. So I go to bar. I needed to sit down. I couldn't stand that log and I sit there and I watch and every single time I'm in an area like that a bar or situation I look around how many other men are my age? Because my generation was completely wiped out. If there are any of us left, they have illnesses, they stay home, they're married, they don't go out that much. So it's very rare to see people my age out in a bar Really truly is, and I count and I see how many 20 year olds, 30 year olds, 40 year olds, 50 year olds, and so the 50s and 60s and older are not there. They're just not there and so there's a lot younger generation and that is people just don't see that demographic part of it and are missing out on a lot of education. Sometimes community centers or certain groups once in a blue moon will have like, oh, let's get the old guard and the new guard and get together and have a talk session, and they do that so infrequently that it really should be done a lot more.

Bryan (he/they): 13:58

Absolutely, and I think the thing for me is just like I understand also because I'm a history person, right, like I love learning and I love learning about the past and learning from the past. So I am sitting there going. I would love to sit down, and this is one of my favorite things about having this podcast is that sometimes I sit down with people who are 20 years older than me and I get to learn and absorb from you and folks like you, and it's just so fascinating to me and I honestly feel like it's what makes me a better person, because I get to like, absorb and and get a new perspective on things that I only saw from the outside. I can only tell you what I saw on the news as a teenager. I can only tell you what I saw in the news as a child. I don't have experience on the front lines, because I do agree that it was war, and what drives me crazy now is listening to conservative politicians being like this is a new phenomenon of queer people being in existence, because, like, where are all the older queer people? You let them die Like you forget. Did you forget that you let them die Like that stuff? Just oh, it really is the thing that will ignite my anger quicker than anything else right now.

Ed (he/him): 15:18

I think, when anger is me more is not so much the outside ignoring us or letting us die, but our own people within our own community do that. The, the, the shaming. You know being HIV positive and on the dating sites oh, are you clean? Well, of course I am. I took a shower this morning.

Bryan (he/they): 15:42

I hate that phrase so much.

Ed (he/him): 15:45

Yeah, so I know Jack Mackinross had a wonderful campaign. Once you get a little rubber ducky and take a picture of you in the shower with the rubber ducky to break away that stigma about I'm not dirty, I'm clean. In fact I'm healthier than anyone else around because I go to the doctor every three months and you take care of yourself. And nowadays you know what? What in my education of HIV? You equals, you undetectables, uninfectious, not only do like regular people did not know this. I find people who are doctors and nurses in the business don't know this. And it's a funny anomaly because, you know, I think every gay man should be educated on certain things and one of them is you equals, you undetectables, uninfectious. And we find it unusual anomaly here in Broward County, being the second largest gay community next to West Hollywood, that gay men are more comfortable here in Broward County having sex with other gay men who are HIV positive. Because if that person's negative, I say are you negative? Did you get a test? Oh yeah, I had a test three weeks ago. Are they lying? So you still have that little chip on your shoulder, that little doubt Are they really negative? Are they lying to me? But if you go to an HIV positive person and say, hey, I want to have sex with you. Are you HIV positive? Sure, undetectable, one medication for so many years. So there's not that fear of having sex with them. And in Broward County there's a comfort level about being only because of the education and the knowledge that we possess here. Yet within gay community here Walton Menors and Walton Drive we have that information. They're popping prep like it's tic-tacs. Then, two miles away, where I work, in the lower income neighborhood and the black community, they're afraid to get a test. And if you have the, so South Florida's epicenter of HIV, new infections for the past 15 years, so why has it been decreased in San Francisco, la and New York? Yet it's still prevalent here and the numbers keep going up every year and year. Well, stigma and fear. For example, if you have the three fears of three stigmas of being gay, black and poor, one on every two gay black men is HIV positive in Broward County. Why Fear? We have to erase the stigma and fear and education will cure this disease.

Bryan (he/they): 18:25

One and two is then nationwide as well, because I actually just read a play for my queer theater class that is called one and two and it is men, these two men on stage, two young black men, and they the crux of the story is that, like we just told the story about this young black man finding out that he had his AIDS and living with AIDS or HIV, and that's me, that that is my story, and one in two of us that is their story, and so I think that is a shocking ratio that we can honestly do more work with, because it really is just a matter of destigmatizing. And I don't know what it's like in Florida, but I know in other states that I've lived in that like access to prep can be like, with the exception of like consistently needed to go to the doctors, it can be relatively easy and can be incredibly affordable to get it. And so it's just like what are the steps that we need to take as a community to help our you know, black gay brothers to be able to protect themselves and kind of work past the stigma that that is black, gay and HIV positive or poor is what you mentioned, sorry, and so I'm, I don't know. I'm here with you on that. As a teacher like my, my whole thing is equity for everyone, and I study lots of things about how to make my classroom equitable for everyone. And it doesn't matter how poor you are, it doesn't matter what your race is or your gender, your gender identity. My goal is that you can be in my space and you will thrive.

Ed (he/him): 20:19

Yeah, well, you know I come from the old days, so we had butchered fam. You were either Rock Hudson or Liberace. You had two choices, really, and and I still live that way you know you're in the butcher family. So today, with all this 50 shades of gay, and and all these different choices and 18 letters and the LBGTQ alphabet, it's so confusing, you know, and so you have to make all these different choices and with, for example, relationship or boyfriend. So I do this exercise a lot in my education. I have 20 people in the room. Here's the piece of paper Write down the word boyfriend or partner. You get those pieces of paper back. You get 20 different definitions because everybody has different dictionary definition and they'll vary. So this is a great exercise to take a word like boyfriend or partner, you know, and different things like that, and you'll get 20 different definitions. Now, one of the things I always do in my education is and give me the definition of stigma. Nobody, no adult, no child, no young adult. No one has ever given me the definition of stigma. No one knows it. I've spoken to educated people. They have an idea of what it might be. They can kind of understand that it was presented in front of them, but no one understands the definition of stigma. No one can put it on paper, with words, and that always baffled me. So that is another great exercise to look into the debate. Until you can fight stigma, you've got to understand what it is and know the definition of it first. So it's all about that education and that outreach. That really boggles my mind, what people know and don't know. Another piece that I want to give you. That's really interesting. So you're very familiar with Will and Grace, correct? Yeah?

Bryan (he/they): 22:26

it was the only pop culture reference I had as a kid.

Ed (he/him): 22:29

So that's a good example. So at your age you had Will and Grace and we had Butch Van Mair and we had a little bit of different style. How many years was that TV show on 10, 12, something like that, in both generations? Hours and hours of hours of gay and lesbian programming from Will and Grace. Not once, not once did they ever mention PREP or HIV on any episode. And when I tell people that they are stymied by that, like really Watch every single bit of that show. And there was an opportunity for them to really put it out there. Will goes on a date, dates a guy. The guy's on PREP. Why couldn't they put that there? It boggles my mind and I want to shake them and find out why they never did that. It really boggles my mind.

Bryan (he/they): 23:19

Yeah, and I think there's something about that like where queer stories aren't being written by queer people, and I think that was very dominant in that time period as well. It's like let's throw this queer story here because we're trying to attack a new demographic right and so nowadays we're getting more queer stories written by queer people, and so we do see some of the things that are stigmatized coming to light, but they're not always in the greatest way. Like I don't know if you watch American Horror Story, but there was an American Horror Story New York season, where literally a man in leather hood and harness represented AIDS and walked around New York City like Molotov, cocktailing an entire bar as a visual representation of what it was like for entire groups of people to be wiped out by this disease, and like this person would show up and like strangle an individual person in their house and whatnot, and so it was like a very graphic representation of what it was like, to kind of put it in terms and to make it a horror story right. But the problem is it already was Like it was a horror story on its own, and that's why I appreciate things like Pose, which kind of addressed it in a real human way.

Ed (he/him): 24:48

Oh yeah.

Bryan (he/they): 24:49

As opposed to sensationalizing it like was done in American Horror Story.

Ed (he/him): 24:53

Yeah, I feel that a lot, not just in that but within our own culture. The leather part of it is the bad, where the bad seeds, and I get that. I'm very involved in the leather community as well. I'm a former Mr Drummer and gone to IML many times, and so sometimes we are looked the leather communities looked upon badly because they are sexually active, they are sexually exploratory and comfortable with it, where some gay people are not comfortable with their sexuality. Yet what they don't know about the history is so they use that as that dark image. But they, what they don't know is back in the old days, in the 80s. Yes, the leather community was the most sexually active and they were the most devastated sector of our community. The majority of that community died. That was part of that community because of the sexual activity. What they don't know is the few men that were left were the ones that started GMHC, that started ACT UP, that really formed the committees and the groups to get things going and get the word out there, and they forget that I'm in. My first kind of connection with the leather community as a young man was Bob Wilson, and his partner passed away. It was a bartender on a Christopher Street and in like 1984, 85, I'm in this apartment above Bellardo's on Christopher Street sewing AIDS quilts. And so there was a couple of leathermen there our token lesbian, and we sat there and drank beer and sold quilts, but it was mostly those leather guys and in the leather community tradition, if you were not a leatherman back then until you were given a piece of leather, it was like here you are, you are part of our neighborhood. Same way, your grandmother passed down a quilt to the daughter it was that in the leather community a piece of leather. So you wore that leather and Bob gave me a piece of his lover's shirt that is very dear to me. It's in the closet, I've never worn it and it hangs in the closet all my other clothes. So there was these traditions and feelings and this close camaraderie that people don't understand. Once again, back to life and death. But in these deep situations that happened back then it can. It just boggles my mind that media television film doesn't show any of what went down then properly. That movie cruising, that was a whole other story. But now, even today, what we have on TV that represents gay and lesbians is really very small. After the AIDS epidemic there was a few HIV things. There's only been about four HIV plays on Broadway. After that it was other things like that were related that had gay characters. But nowadays it's passe, it's not trendy. So you don't see gay characters on Broadway, theater, film or TV anymore. It's not trendy. We've fought to be accepted. Now that we're accepted, we blend it in. People don't see us because we are part of it now.

Bryan (he/they): 28:21

Yeah, and I think that the representation is expanding because, for instance, like right now on Broadway and Juliet has non-binary character, some like it hot. I was like avidly against seeing some like it hot because I just remember the old movie and I thought it was going to be incredibly bigoted, because the old movie is literally just two men dressing in drag so that they can escape death and it turns out in the Broadway that this person who dresses in drag to escape death ends up finding that they have a non-binary identity. And so I think that it's expanding a little bit because there's also like non-binary characters in Kimberly, a'kimbo and Shucked, which I'm excited to see. It's about corn and I have no idea what it's about. But I think that it's expanding because I think you're absolutely correct in that like, okay, gay people are fine now and so like they're trying to expand representation, which is great. Except for I agree with you in the sense that I put together an entire catalog of like queer plays during queer theater class this summer and you're absolutely correct in that like there is a lack of queer storyline that's happening, and I have like different categorizations on my database and one of them is like we don't see queer family like that, that that future that actually is my present, of being a queer parent doesn't exist in representation other than like passing through stories like Priscilla, queen of the Desert one of the queens is a parent, you know, and that's it. Like it's a sub story to a bigger picture and we don't see there's a classification that is just AIDS plays and nine times out of 10 with those plays it's really just about an outside perspective, like you're seeing this person from their parents eyes or their doctors eyes or or whatnot. You're not seeing the person from their own experiences. And so I think there's a lot, a long way to go in entertainment to truly provide representation. Because I think about, like high schools and how the Laramie project is a huge play that a lot of people want to push for. There are zero queer people in the Laramie project. It is a play that is about the aftermath of someone dying who was queer.

Ed (he/him): 30:59

Yeah.

Bryan (he/they): 31:01

And yet that is supposed to be the queer representation in theater and it's not because there are no queer people on it.

Ed (he/him): 31:09

I saw a wonderful show about the homos of Hitchcock and how. I don't know if you see it, but you really should.

Bryan (he/they): 31:18

No, I'll check it out.

Ed (he/him): 31:19

It explores these gay men that he employed and represented. I forget what the name of the movie is, but there's this one movie where these two guys that live together have a dinner party and they kill somebody and put their body in this like chest and then put the table on it and then the folks have dinner and it's really very gay.

Bryan (he/they): 31:44

I'm starting to see where Richard O'Brien got that scene from Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ed (he/him): 31:52

So back then I think it's wonderful to kind of look back on those kind of things. Remember Liberace he was gay than anything, yet everyone accepted him. Why? Because his talent. He was such a talented pianist. His talent overshadowed his gayness and the ladies liked him. And then the straight guy go well, he's a little flouncy but he's a really good pianist. They made out of like them for being gay, but they applauded him on his own. So I think we've all learned from that Show who you are, show your talents. I don't think you should just go out there and just wear the rainbow and be gay, you know, be who you are inside before you put the rainbow colors on the outside and show them who you truly are and then make a statement. But the homo is a Hitchcock, is a great one. I'm going to butcher his name, but there's another internet YouTuber guy, matt Bauer bomber.

Bryan (he/they): 32:56

Yeah, Matt Bauer.

Ed (he/him): 32:57

Yeah, I think I've watched all of his stuff. He's really great. I just finished a theater project called the Y Chronicles, and what this was is I got grant funding from my theater company and I had eight men and an HIV workshop Standard HIV long-term survivor workshop Tell your stories every week. But then, as you tell it, we journaled their stories. After we journaled those stories and put them on paper, they handed in those journals to me and then I wrote a play. But it really was copy and paste of their true stories. So last weekend at my theater we presented the Y Chronicles, which was just a stage reading, a collection of these monologues. These actors were phenomenal. They sat there and read the monologues, young, old, telling the true stories of survival, and some were funny, some were sad. After every monologue the audience cried and laughed and applauded. And I've done this type of project before. And so what's really wonderful about this? A yes, it was great theater, but B we're using this as an educational tool. So that way, once I fix this now a little bit in doosal editing, this project can be now sent down to not theater companies but HIV resource centers who can do a one night only event. You know, I'm so tired of PowerPoints. If you give me a person who just reads the PowerPoint, I'm ready to slap them. But something like this can educate because after you have this monologue, we present it, you hire some actors, have them go up there and then afterwards you start the Q&A. This is what sparks the audience to ask the proper questions, the important questions. So things like this theater for me cannot just be entertaining and fun. It also can be a huge, huge educational tool, and for me, I use artwork and theater to educate about my community and about HIV.

Bryan (he/they): 35:07

I love that. I'm a huge fan of edutainment, so I'm right there with you. I, as an educator, try to tie every one of the scripts that I choose for school back to what the core values are for this school, so that way I can show my students what it means to like live your values as opposed to memorize the definition of a value. So there's a couple of things that I want to make sure that we get to. One I want your definition of what a stigma is. You threw it out there so I'm throwing it back.

Ed (he/him): 35:49

All right, stigma is fear. You can put it into that one simple word Stigma is fear. It's fear of unknowing, not knowing. So stigma is the fear of not knowing something, not being educated on it, and then you have a negative response towards that because you don't have the fear and the knowledge of it. So if someone is not educated, they're fearful of flying, so you're afraid to fly. Well, let's get you on a plane, let's take a couple of flights, and now that you understand how an airplane works, how flight works, you erase that fear, erase the stigma. So many times in my education I get people not to know me but to know the material. I'll give you a couple of examples. So this is AIDS candy. Have you ever seen this? So for 40 years, from the 1940s to the 1980s, AIDS-reducing candy was sold on stores all over the world. It was a little chocolate too, with some drugs in it made you poop, made you lose weight. Now, in 1984, when AIDS became AIDS, this company went bankrupt because the TV commercial says I'm so glad I got AIDS. And the company went bankrupt and all the product has had to be dumped in the ocean. But if people were educated, and the fear and the stigma. Okay, come on, You're really going to get AIDS from eating a piece of chocolate In 1984, that's how stupid they were. That we know better today. I think the toilet seat thing like you're going to get AIDS from a toilet seat, can I remember?

Bryan (he/they): 37:38

that vividly when I was younger.

Ed (he/him): 37:40

Yeah, and so this is another one I use in my education. So this is the 10-year ribbon and this is one of the art pieces at the museum. The artist it's called the 10-year ribbon because these artists saved all of his HIV medicine bottles for 10 full years. So it's 417 bottles glued into a 5-foot ribbon. Each bottle costs $800 for a 30-day supply. This sculpture represents $336,000 worth of medication in 10 years. I know a lot about this because I'm the artist and I made this. So this is the presentation I would give it to the museum with this piece of artwork. And once people know the facts and know what's the information and then I really reveal myself they're comfortable because I built up a trust. So getting rid of stigma is getting rid of that fear. And how do you get rid of that fear? You have to build up a trust and then you have to educate them. So, once again, the subject of HIV and AIDS is a difficult one. So, using music, freddie Mercury how many people know Freddie Mercury music? So talk about that, tell me what you enjoy about his music, everything you know about him, and then the movie did you like the movie? So I get them interested in something. Build up that trust and get them interested in something they like. Now it's not shown in the movie but in reality Freddie Mercury said to his manager and says look, I have this virus, I need to make a press conference. So he had a press conference, announced the world he had AIDS. He died the very next day of that press conference and no one knows that and it's not in the movie, but that's fact. Have you ever seen the TV show Gunsmoke? No, so it's a TV show that ran for 25 years. Amanda Blake was the actress that played Miss Kitty, who ran the saloon. She died of AIDS. Her husband had prostitutes and infected her and he died and she died. So, especially with my parents and the generation, I connect to them who knows TV in the 40s and 50s and 60s and say so you have to find something to connect to them. So I listened to the student or the adult. I found out what they know and don't know and I try to connect with them with music, with TV, with artwork and Keith Herring. They may know Keith Herring. So connect with them on some level. Find out what they know and don't know, hit them with something they're familiar with and then throw the HIV-AIDS story in there and they go wow, I didn't know that, it creates a light bulb thing. So back to your original question stigma is fear. And how do you erase fear? By getting them educated and interested in the subject and how it affects them, whether they be infected or affected, and it's as simple as that. Really fear, stigma is fear, and we need to erase that fear by education. Education will erase the fear.

Bryan (he/they): 40:54

Ed, you were like the king of segue because you answered my second question in that and so I'm going to ask it anyway, just in case there's anything else that pops up. But talking about education like, what would it look like if a school were to come talk, or you go present to the school? What are the things that you're hitting on in the school that you want to make sure that the kids take away?

Ed (he/him): 41:20

Well, so a good example is Black History Month. So they'll list all the Black History people Harriet Tubman Carver, george Washington Carver so you'll list all those people and it's standard in a lot of the schools the same thing over and over again. Yet what they will eliminate in that Black History Month is Bayard Rustin. They'll talk about Martin Luther King, but they don't have a clue who Bayard Rustin is and for the audience, he wrote some of the speeches and was his second hand man to Martin Luther King. So I think that if we can get on that same level, that Black History Month shows those people and that in June, a gay history month, that we showed our gay ancestors and showed the history and the importance and the contributions that they made, so that is. I don't know why I got off of that tangent, but so it's that level playing field. Yeah, I mean, some people still have prejudice against black people, but they understand that. Oh yeah, in February there's Black History Month and we have these people. But wow, to have that same level of education and representation in June, it's gonna take us another 10 or 20 years, unfortunately, I feel.

Bryan (he/they): 42:52

So I think that they actually. We have Pride Month in June and they actually created a national LGBTQ History Month in October, and the reason for that is that most schools are out in June and so this is an opportunity where everybody can kind of be involved. It's in the middle of the school year, so right now, as we do this interview, it's October 1st. Schools have this opportunity to do this, and I remember my second year teaching. Someone came up to me and they're like we wanna do some things for LGBTQ History Month in October and they asked my advice on all the things that everything got vetoed and it was wild to me because this wonderful person she is still a friend that I'm connected with, despite the fact that I haven't worked there in a year and whatnot. But she came up to me. She's like I wanna do things on Marsha P Johnson and I wanna do things on Sylvia Rivera, but I can't because of prostitution and drugs Literally that one, those two things are so stigmatized that we couldn't do anything, not talk about anything with that person and how they influenced the community on a whole. And so then you're left with wonderful people like Harvey Milk, but even then the school district wouldn't allow us to kind of celebrate that. We did one thing. We did a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little one thing that I feel is incredibly brave. I was the host of not a host, but I was a producer of a talk show that happened once a week where students talked about things at the school that were important, and we did a national coming out day episode where the students received in their Instagram inboxes coming out stories from other students and teachers in the school and just read them and read their stories, and it was the only thing of significance that we were allowed to do, because there was so much stigma associated with just being a queer person.

Ed (he/him): 45:01

Yeah, well, remember, if there is this thing in October and all schools across the country supposed to engage in that October, well, another state like California may embrace that, but remember I live in Florida, where they don't say gay, so you know.

Bryan (he/they): 45:19

And I'm talking about Texas, where they are basically just copying Florida's playbook at the moment.

Ed (he/him): 45:24

Yeah, and so that is. I think my challenge is we need to. I would love to have that same level playing field. I think one of the big ways to help this and get around this I feel very strongly about this is that parents and people who have kids and people in my sector who are single and don't have kids we need to support two things. We need to support GLASA, the teachers gay lesbian teachers association. They exist. So many people don't know that they exist and we need to get behind them because they need allies, they need our support. They're doing it all alone and, as you know, you may have so many teachers that participate that and some that are still afraid to participate in that. They're afraid to lose their jobs because of the stigma. So us as a community, as a giant whole, we need to support glass and we also need to support any gay and lesbian clubs that may exist. If there's a gay and lesbian after school program, support them, do whatever we can give them money, education, whatever we can provide. Another good example is here in Florida, in Broward County. We have a lot of schools, maybe 50, 60 high school level schools. We have about seven rate which we call the priority schools which may be in poor, black, low income neighborhoods. So I can go to the Christian Academy and they don't want to hear about condoms. But we have a school here and I give them big kudos because they're wonderful Blanchilly High School in Pompano Beach. We've had a program with them called Band-Aids. Just like the chess club or the drama club, it's called Band-Aids and these kids go there and talk about HIV and learn from us and then they're passing out condoms in the cafeteria. We as adults can't get into the schools a lot. We can educate them and then those students can educate the community. Passing out condoms in the cafeteria lunchtime is huge. They've been doing it over 17, 18 years at this one school. So we find certain schools which have the need and the understanding and other schools that have that roadblock and you have to understand sometimes you never get past that roadblock. So support GLASA, support whatever student GLBT agency we can, and they need allies such as us as much as anything.

Bryan (he/they): 47:56

Absolutely, and I'll put the link to the website for the Gay Lesbian Teacher Association inside the show notes for this episode. I'm also a huge proponent of GLSEN because they provide resources for Gender and Sexualities Association, which is the new phrase for GSA, formerly known as Gay Straight Alliance, and so these organizations are so pivotal because they're the ones that can help in the classrooms. And you cut it, so you're so good at this. You touched on my final episode, or my final question of the episode.

Ed (he/him): 48:35

I want to talk about one real quick thing though. In the Teacher Association, what do you think the percentages of teachers that are afraid to join GLSEN? Well, we are on here with Gebeta. Have a good evening students. Oh, I imagine that's like 80-90%. Really See, people don't understand that. Yeah, 80-90%, there are teachers out there that are not participating for fear of the stigma of being associated with that Crazy.

Bryan (he/they): 48:58

That's funny because NEA, the National Education Association, has like a LGBTQ cohort that I'm a part of and whatnot, but it's like a newsletter without real actionable resources, and so having other organizations and other options is so necessary. And so, yeah, look in the show notes, folks, they will be there See if they can be helpful for you, and I'm sure that you can join and still have a level of animosity if you need to, because in this kind of turbulent time, safety is key. You shouldn't do anything that's going to put you in danger. So, as I mentioned, you kind of touched on my final question that I always ask, which is like how can school environments be more inclusive for LGBTQ students? Is there anything else you wanted to add to that?

Ed (he/him): 49:56

How can they be more inclusive? Well, like I said, even just to do what I ask to get to know those gay and lesbian groups, the GSAs and the GLSEN. Even that's very difficult, because who are you? You are an outsider, everyone's a little guarded. So take it easy, take it slow, just let them know that you're there to help out. And sometimes just having a little cash or here's a place, pay for that bus to get to the World AIDS Museum, pay for that bus to get them to the museum in your town. That's something you're helping them out. So that's really helpful. And yeah, it's hard to get into the schools and like anything, I feel you have to give people the direction. So, for example, if you have substance abuse issues or drinking and so well, I'm not saying you are, but here is a piece of paper, this is who to call, this is where they have classes and AA meetings. So they may not go to that meeting in the next week or next month, maybe two years from now, but they find that piece of paper there. So just get the word out there that, for example, like I said, there's a five acre campus here, there's a game. Let's be community center in your town, let them know. And if it's not in your town, let them know, like for example, in Miami, they can come up here to our community center. If you live in rural Kissimmee, you can drive to Orlando. Cocoa Beach in Melbourne has to drive an hour, hour and a half to go to Orlando, but do it. You drive from the Cocoa Beach Space Coast area to get to Orlando to a game lesbian community center and a game lesbian community. If there's not one in your neighborhood Unfortunately that's what happens is in rural and suburban areas there's just not that access to it. But once again, today of this day and age, you have people such as yourself and the internet and groups, so join. I mean you can join an AA group online. Well then, join a game lesbian talk group like this online. Get involved in a chat like this and get to know your game lesbian community. If it has to be like this through internet and through video calls, so be it. Make it happen, do something.

Bryan (he/they): 52:34

And for those of you who are in in rural areas, there's a wonderful podcast that's based out of Kentucky, that is called Weathering Rainbows, and it is literally geared toward people who are in rural areas, who don't have an outlet near them, and they talk about everything from like. They had me on the podcast and I talked about education. They had other people on the podcast talking about doing drag or coming out or you know how to keep yourself safe in turbulent environments and whatnot, and so there there are some online resources available if you can't get to those spaces, and I just wanted to share one because they've been very friendly with our podcast. So, to wrap things up, you have the opportunity to ask me a question, so I'm going to go ahead and turn over the mic to you.

Ed (he/him): 53:25

Ask you a question. Well, you are knowledgeable on a lot of different factors. So you are gathering all this kind of information from people such as myself and all the other educators. So you are gathering all this information other than getting, paying it forward and spreading that word out through your podcast. What other avenues can you do to educate our community besides the podcast?

Bryan (he/they): 53:57

So I've been thinking about this a lot as I kind of figure out what the next chapter looks like for me. I just moved to a new city, and one of the things that I've always wanted to do is really be an advocate for the community, and the creation of this podcast was, honestly, because I didn't see queer educator voices anywhere, I didn't see our stories being told, and so for me, this was the opening of the door for advocacy. One of the things that I want to do in the future is to kind of transition this company because I created the podcast as a company into a nonprofit organization that then goes and supports LGBTQ educators and educational programs. There are things that happen that are specific to supporting LGBTQ students, which I think is fantastic. Where I find education lacking at the moment is in supporting teachers, and so I wouldn't want to create a fund that could help support teachers who are the LGBTQ advocate on their campuses, and they would have a grant application that they'd have to fill out, and a panel would be created to kind of decide how that's going to play out. My goal is to be able to give back to the very community that I'm asking for information from, because I do see that, especially in education. So much rightfully so goes to the students, but what I think is really lacking is this kind of support for educators, and it's why we see burnout and it's why we see teacher shortage is because no one's investing in the teachers, and so I would want to be that resource where I can be an advocate for LGBTQ teachers, not only in amplifying their voices, but also in a judiciary way to support their programs and the things that they're wanting to do on their schools.

Ed (he/him): 56:06

Maybe like a go fund me kind of thing where, yes, you might be raising money for these gay teachers, but if, let's say, a teacher needs a laptop, I have an extra laptop, let me send it to them. Or, like I said, paying for buses hey, we want to take this bus trip to such and such. The bus is going to cost three fifty. Maybe someone will come along and just sponsor that.

Bryan (he/they): 56:27

So absolutely all of those things, and that is a goal of mine is to create an online community. Eventually. I am assessing the new resources for my website, because the resource I'm looking at can allow me to host my podcast but also have like a login community so that we're not inundated with hate, where people can log in, be a part of this community and connect with each other. But also it could be that stomping ground, that that place where I can say like, post your projects here and then we'll try to connect sponsors to your projects. And so these are kind of like my five year goals for what teaching while queer can look like, because I think that's really. That is really. What's lacking is a sense of community, and many teachers don't have like a teacher association. In many states, like having official teachers association is illegal, and so this would be an opportunity to be able to provide community and continue to support education and support teachers and ultimately, in supporting those teachers were supporting their students.

Ed (he/him): 57:50

So that's the dream. Well, it's great. I mean, like I said, it's one step at a time. I learned years ago a lot of my theater work has really helped me in education, listening and understanding other people, and an actress named Nancy Marchion told me many years ago never be the best, always be better. And that related to education, because if you're the best, you've won the Tony award, you've hit the ceiling and now you can't get any work because now you're the best actress and, as you know, best Oscar. They have trouble getting work after they've won the best Oscar. But if you're better, you can always get better. You can always get better. So with theater it's always about educating and learning and growing. And you know and teaching. You know. Things change. We see, you know we use these calculators now, you know laptops. So you have to kind of learn and grow with the times and change. So always just getting better and better and better is better than being the best.

Bryan (he/they): 58:55

I agree. It's almost like for those of you who are pop culture reference people. It's almost like you want to be the Susan Lucci. You want to constantly be nominated because it means that you're good.

Ed (he/him): 59:05

Yeah.

Bryan (he/they): 59:06

But because you're not the best, you still have room to grow. Yeah, and I love that, like as an educator, as an academic, because I'm constantly like, as soon as I finish a degree, I'm like, what new thing can I learn now? So I'm constantly looking for ways to grow and learn, and so I think that is so important. Ed, I just wanted to say thank you for the wonderful conversation today. I appreciate that you came on to the podcast and shared a different side to education and an aside that's so important, which is the side of education that focuses on ending the stigma around HIV and AIDS. So I want to thank you so much for your work and that you took your time to talk with me today. Well, thank you very much.

Ed (he/him): 59:47

I had a great time.

Bryan (he/they): 59:49

Awesome and thank you all for joining us on this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Have a great day. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Teaching Wild Queer. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did make sure to subscribe. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, leave a review, and that would help out tremendously. You can also support the podcast by going to wwwteachingwildqueercom and hit support the show. Thanks so much and have a great day.