Jake Brown: A Journey of Inclusivity and Compassion in Education

Transcript

Bryan (he/they): 0:27

Teaching While Queer is a 2SLGBTQIA+ educational professionals to share their experiences in academia. Hi, I'm your host, Bryan Stanton, a theater pedagogy and educator in New York City, and my goal is to share stories from around 2SLGBTQIA+ world from educators. I hope you enjoy Teaching While Queer. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, Bryan Stanton, and I'm so excited to have Jake Brown with me today. Hi, Jake, how are you doing?

Jake (he/him): 1:06

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for asking. It's been really hot over here in Arizona, so stay inside and join the AC.

Bryan (he/they): 1:13

Absolutely. I'm in Texas. It is also really hot, but we get into the triple digits, but not like the triple tens. So I feel for you.

Jake (he/him): 1:23

Yeah, it's been pretty rough, but it's nice. I mean, I enjoy it. I'm a desert rat through and through, oh for sure.

Bryan (he/they): 1:32

I always love when people talk about the desert, because I have a friend who hates living here in South Texas because of the humidity but I love. Vegas because it's a dry heat. Like look, he is heat there. So tell us a little bit about yourself, Jake. Where do you teach? What do you teach?

Jake (he/him): 1:50

And yeah, so I actually have taught here in Arizona for the past eight years. I just took a little bit of a hiatus this past year. I actually just when the summer started I kind of took a break. I put everything on pause and I'm stepping out of the field for a little bit to experience some other careers before coming back. I do intend to come back. I've already set up to like sub with the district previously, but I've taught middle school, seventh and eighth grade science down here in the valley, so that would be like the Phoenix area all eight of those years and it's been wonderful.

Bryan (he/they): 2:30

Awesome. Science has got to be such an interesting subject to teach right now. I mean, I feel like almost every school subject in a high school is, for some reason, controversial Nowadays. But, like when you're teaching science, you've got this idea or you've got to combat the like facts birth versus faith type dynamic.

Jake (he/him): 2:53

Has that ever actually?

Bryan (he/they): 2:53

appeared for you in your classes.

Jake (he/him): 2:55

You know you'd be surprised. It really hasn't. I always expected it to be something that I would encounter, where maybe I'd have issues between, like what somebody believes faith-wise versus what their science was. But also I think that with the way that I would generally approach things, it wouldn't lead to them having to deal with that conflict too much. And so I guess something that I had always done was when teaching science especially when we're at the very beginning of the year is I tell them the importance of religion to science as a whole, because a lot of our previous most successful scientists Galileo and things like that we're all members of the church and part of the reason and I mean we're talking Gregor Mendel- yeah, father of biology. Yeah, yeah. And that's one of those things where it's worth noting that they were in a position. They had all the books, they had all the money, you know, and so they were the ones who were able to do the research, and it was often in pursuit of faith. And so I always tell my students, if you're having that conundrum or that quandary, that's how you should approach it is go with it, with science, and use science to try to affirm that faith as opposed to destroy it.

Bryan (he/they): 4:09

So I think that's so interesting because I think you're absolutely correct in the fact that, like science didn't come out of like answering the question like why are we here? Right, and that's the same question that you're asking when you are going to a faith based organization.

Jake (he/him): 4:25

So what an?

Bryan (he/they): 4:25

interesting way to tie them in and honestly, I also thought that you probably have to deal with a little bit more, but that's because of my own, like I am aware of the social political standpoint of like Arizona, just like in Texas, where things can get very heated really quickly, and so it's good to know that, like these perceptions that we have from viewing things from the outside aren't exactly what's happening in the world. I know that I've had that experience with people like I'm from California, so when things happen in Texas that they don't like, they're like oh Texans, what are you doing? Like it's the Texans fault, and I'm like doesn't even know what you're talking about. You're not even here. So that is. It's a good perspective to know that, like what we see, whether it be from the news or whatever that like that might not actually be the reality of what's happening in that world. But anyways, thanks for going on that tangent with me. I just popped in my brain as we were talking. Can we go back in time and maybe talk about your journey as a queer youth? Sure?

Jake (he/him): 5:35

So this is actually kind of where what you asked leads into that. I grew up in a very small, very Catholic mining town here in Arizona and during my experience there I definitely felt that pressure that you're talking about, and so when I was in high school, like you know, I started to realize that I was, you know, somewhere within the LGBTQ community around junior high. But it wasn't until high school that I started to really express that. And during that experience there was a point in time where I really was the only openly gay kid in my school and it caused me to definitely kind of be a pariah. I mean, it got to the point where my mom and my dad had taught in this area my entire life and before I was born, and so everybody knew my parents and my mom had just recently moved to Hawaii and while she was there, a random person from my hometown had found her number in Hawaii, called her to out me. They asked her if I was sick and if I was, you know, because I had been seen holding hands with a boy or whatever and it caught her completely off guard, you know, and so she and I had to have that conversation a little bit, maybe more before I was ready, and so that was definitely some of the stuff I experienced and being bullied for being gay and dressing however I wanted and such was at the time really hard, but I, you know, I kind of came to terms with it and I delivered a speech during my senior year where I thanked those people and I know that sounds really weird to thank your bullies or whatever, but I did. I said, you know, without you in middle school calling me all of the things that you did because I wasn't your typical boy I never would have asked myself questions that I did. That led me on the journey that caused me to discover who I was. And, you know, thank you for being the people that you were in high school, for bullying me, because you gave me the strength to realize that I can be so much better and that I am so much stronger than I ever thought I was ever going to be, and for, you know, for hardening me for what the real world was going to be like. You know I took that kind of approach and you know it's like if you take the sting from them, you know if they think that they're getting you, but instead you turn it like that it was. It was a lot and it was very therapeutic for me to kind of undergo that. I mean, I had moments where people were threatening to beat me up after basketball games and teachers were so scared that they would, you know, at the parking lot, you know, pull up and say like, hey, I'm really worried about you. Is there any way I can help you get home safe? And you know it's. I had so many people to work and take care of me and these were teachers that had known me since I was a very tiny child, right, because they had worked with my dad and they had worked with my mom. They'd seen me from a baby, and so, you know, I got lucky in a big way. You know that that was a part of the like, my development and I but I won't lie Even some of the teachers had a problem with me. There was a point in time where one of the teachers that was in my school was saying some really awful stuff about me to his entire class, I mean, and a girl in the class. She stood up and she said well, you wouldn't be causing a commotion about it if it was two girls that had, you know kissed in the hallways or whatever, and he said, you know, you're damn right, I wouldn't. And she complained and he was immediately removed. And the hardest part was he was my dad's best friend at that school. I mean he at the time was, and they, I had gone camping with them and I mean I had done all these things and you know, non like things that would fall outside of the lines of like what your stereotypical gay would be, and he still had that problem with me. And so all of that shaped a lot of who I was going to eventually become as a teacher for sure.

Bryan (he/they): 9:39

Yeah, absolutely. You know, you're not the only person that's had that kind of outing experience. I think I've had several conversations and these two seasons of the show where that has happened.

Jake (he/him): 9:53

I mean, I experienced that as well and I'm wondering like and I make you know, I make assumptions, because I don't ask people their age to know my business but we all look to be similar to people that have mentioned that story, that it's like, almost like it's a late 90s, early 2000s, phenomenon of like we are going to spread your business to your parents.

Bryan (he/they): 10:17

And it's so interesting to me because now we've got like people advocating for laws in which there is an expectation of outing, because parents feel like they have the right to know, and it's like you will when the time is right, and so it's so interesting to me how, how many stories I hear of people being outed because I would do that and I would do that and it's all around the same time period.

Jake (he/him): 10:52

Yeah, well, and I think that if you want kind of my like armchair psychology kind of thing would be, the cell phones. I really think that with the introduction of cell phones and social media, that your parents, like my mom, who was literally across the giant ocean I mean she was so far away but she was that accessible right, just because they knew all they had to do was find that, like that one cell phone number, that one Facebook profile or whatever it is there was, it just feels so accessible. It's kind of like the same reason why we see so much anonymous hate online, because people feel so much more disconnected from whatever it is that they're doing, especially the harm that they're causing, because they only see the screen, and so that's kind of always been my theory about it was that it was the cell phones, that the prevalence of smartphones becoming a thing, that that happened and why I got out of the way I did.

Bryan (he/they): 11:48

That's fair enough. I think that the more accessible that we become, the easier it is to try to play.

Jake (he/him): 11:54

I don't damage, it's really about damaging other people.

Bryan (he/they): 11:57

It's not really, because what benefit did that person get from? From telling your mom like nothing? It was really about like hurting you or maybe you know, depending on the situation and the perspective, like hurting your mom, depending on what their relationship was, you know, like there wasn't something good that was coming out of that conversation.

Jake (he/him): 12:20

Well, and that's something that, like I think, worked to my benefit. My parents were both very supportive. My dad was a quiet supportive, not really like, not really going to have the conversation, but my mom, on the other hand, has always been supportive. When she found out that I was gay, she started telling other people that she had like the Holy Trinity of a girl, a boy, a girl and a gay was like her joke that she would tell people when they were trying to upset her and I have always loved that my mom's like really positive perspective on it. And so when they called her, you know she was like and why is this your business, you know? And she, she really gave him the what for and that was it was great in strengthening my relationship with her, despite her being so far away. So, once again, thanking the bullies. Without them I wouldn't have come as close to her as I did.

Bryan (he/they): 13:08

I love that you take that perspective because really it doesn't matter like who people are, like everybody or every situation has the ability to impact us and we all have a choice right we can allow it to impact us negatively or we can allow it to impact us positively and without getting into like a toxic positivity, like you've got to make lemonade out of every lemon thrown away, no, like sometimes you let the lemon rot on the floor, but sometimes you do shake that lemon and you turn it into lemonade because that's going to be what's better for you.

Jake (he/him): 13:44

And you're totally right, and that's, and that's the thing like I might be saying, like you know, I think my bullies but I cried. You know I bawled my eyes out. You know there were times when I would lock myself in a dark room and just sob it out. You know, uncontrollably, like 100%, like that's totally the realistic thing that happens, right. I'm just saying that you've got to find that that's overlining. If there's hardship in your life and you let it define you, then you're going to have a hard life, right. But if you have hardship in your life and you're willing to let it build you, you're going to be stronger in the long run. I think it's where I'm going with that.

Bryan (he/they): 14:19

Yeah, I love that. And then, so, how, how do the this journey and this I mean honestly this wonderful perspective, how do you see that showing up as a queer teacher in your classroom?

Jake (he/him): 14:29

Sure. So I think part of a big part of what was me getting by as a teacher was just being me, you know, and realistically like being willing to just be who I was and present myself in whatever way that I felt comfortable with and that's always been actually is kind of you know, a big thing to me now is making sure sorry that I'm comfortable, especially in what I wear. I like to definitely have a lot of my personality and what I wear and in my classroom too I had a whole corner dedicated to Funko figures of everything that I liked, every genre of movies. I liked horror movies, all my horror movie villains and, and you know, disney villains and things like that. They were all displayed up there, all my video game characters, so that when a kid walked in they weren't surprised. You know what I mean. They might be surprised by the fact that I like video games or I like horror movies, but they weren't surprised about kind of who I was as time went on and what they learned about me, you know, and it would allow them to kind of connect with me on whatever level they felt comfortable with, like surface level video game stuff, or if they started to realize like, hey, I'm getting some you know some queer vibes here. You know, is this somebody that I feel comfortable with? And oftentimes you know they would, they would get to that point. You know where they were comfortable. So I definitely think that that's one strong way that I approached my classroom was just in what I dressed and what I displayed. I think that it makes a big difference and that's a huge, huge part of what I think was like added to my success.

Bryan (he/they): 16:10

What I think is so interesting is that, like in like on Instagram, you can see all these like perfectly put together classrooms with vinyl wood planking on the walls and like they made it feel really cozy and at home, but there's like literally no personality for the teacher, like I have no idea who this teacher is. And what I love about what you're saying in a couple other conversations I had this week is like using pop culture and like what we love about pop culture. What we love about pop culture as that like spark to engage our students, because if we can connect over stranger things or Star Trek or Star, Wars, or whatever the situation is that's a barrier that comes down and we might have a deeper connection because we can nerd out on something or geek out on something with a student and then if we're like, but I made this classroom so welcoming and I've got like Ivy on the walls, like I just think it's so interesting how, like this perception of what the classroom is supposed to look like is devoid of the personality of the teacher.

Jake (he/him): 17:20

Well, and I think that comes from years of parents like people being afraid of parents. You know, I think that there's always been that like worry, like oh well, a few. For, for example, when I was a kid, third grade, harry Potter was a big no, no right. Like we started reading it, we got through two chapters and then, all of a sudden, all the people were like I'm not sure what I was reading through and said absolutely not know which crafted my schools and, and you know, god forbid, because it was so great. Yeah, and understand, I understand that the Harry Potter has his controversies, right. I do get that and everything. But what I mean is like it was. It was so strong at the time that we were in the schools and we can't discredit that it really was. It grew with the, with the population and everything, and so you have this whole group of parents that were so caught up in just the witches and wizards that they refused to accept that there was the nugget of greatness there to help kids and get them interested in reading and keep them reading for whatever. It was 10 years as the series was produced. So you know, I think that that's sometimes where that like classroom avoidance comes from. That like sanitization is that you have folks who are worried that if they do present themselves in a way that parents are going to be angry. And you know I I won't lie, I thought about that when I was putting up my little, you know Chuckie Funko, there would stay knife or whatever. Like I was worried, I thought to myself like somebody might have a problem with that. But I was surprised that more often than not, parents would come up to me and they would be the ones who are excited, you know. Or they would say like, oh, my kid loves horror movies. I cannot wait till they, like you know, have like, are getting the chance to talk to you about it and it. And it was great, you know, and and so I definitely think that it it also allowed me to. If a parent really didn't like my vibe when they walked in, they had no problem telling like, admin, hey, I want my kid changed. That did happen once in a while, and so everybody wins. You know what I mean. Those parents ended up getting their kid to another teacher who might better suit what they want, and that creates a more inclusive feeling room for me, because that kind of population is removed. So it kind of serves twofold. You know it has to two benefits to it.

Bryan (he/they): 19:30

Absolutely. I think that there's so much to be said about that. I mean, teachers have a little bit of sway and whatnot, but really the parents have a lot of power in education, and so I'm fully a proponent. If you don't like a teacher, switch your kid out of the class, but don't go on a tirade about how that teacher needs to be fired or whatever because, that's none of your business. But if you don't like a teacher, you don't have to engage with the teacher to just switch the class. It's very seldom. I mean in cases of like I don't know AP psychology or something where it's like a one class period in a day that one teacher is teaching, you might have an issue, but for the majority of general education and elective classes, like you can switch to another teacher is no big deal.

Jake (he/him): 20:20

Yeah, totally, and that's that is something that I think I always told my kids. I'm like you know they come in, they complain about whatever it was, and within reason, you know, I'd obviously try to get to know what they were, what they were talking about, and if I knew the teacher I'd be like, well, that's, you know, that's the high expectations that you're asking yeah yeah, I love the teacher.

Bryan (he/they): 20:39

I talk a lot about like stern versus mean. Are they actually being mean or are they just being stern?

Jake (he/him): 20:44

Yeah, totally. And so like just telling them, though, like if it really is something that you're not comfortable with, maybe the expectations you feel are too high, ask. You know, if you feel like you got put into gate because your parents want to do there and you don't feel like you're doing well in the advanced classes, ask. Just all you got to do is ask and ask your parents, and if they ask, things will happen, because admin will make mountains move. For you know, for a parent who demands something, Absolutely.

Bryan (he/they): 21:11

That's the truth right there. So have you had the opportunity to work with queer kids in your school?

Jake (he/him): 21:19

Yeah, so in every one of my years I definitely have had my experience working with various kids in the LGBTQ plus community and it's always so wonderful and rewarding, even when maybe I don't get to be the one who makes that like deep connection with them. I have had times. I was really lucky, really lucky. The school that I taught at my second stint so I did three years at one school in a district and then three years another school in that district, and my second stint at my new school was a very progressive, very supportive sorry fly very supportive admin, and so we were the only school in our district that had an active gay straight alliance. And especially at like an age of like seventh and eighth grade, I feel like that's such a big deal because that's right. When they're starting to really kind of find themselves in the pecking order of like the social hierarchy, it's where they're starting to really understand that they can be themselves or, like you know, focus on who do they want to be, and there's all that growth that just kind of bubbles up throughout seventh and eighth grade. And so I got really, really lucky that our school had that air of acceptance and so oftentimes I mean at the second school I was so lucky because kids were really oftentimes very open with themselves and I have had seen kind of a growing acceptance amongst everybody. It wasn't really something that people were using to tease or talk about anymore. And you know, when students were coming dressed, you know, as like they're not assigned to birth gender, there wasn't a lot of hullabaloo about it, right, like you know. There wasn't a whole lot, and occasionally, if there was, it was usually just that one kid and admin would acknowledge like that kids got parents that are, you know, feeding them that and that's why they're being so mean. And so in all my years I think I only really experienced one or two instances of really really bad I'm talking like something that was so bad, but other than that it was the stereotypical seventh, eighth grade, like taunting, teasing, yeah that's gay. But you know, I was definitely lucky, and something that I would like to bring up is a part of what I did to connect with a subsection of the LGBTQ plus community, and that's the furry community. I am part of the furry community and, for those who don't like, know or understand where it was, you know I've had to have this conversation plenty of times, even with my admin, and I like to explain that the furry community and what it really is is. Oftentimes you'll find people who are not maybe satisfied with who they are, or not comfortable with who they are, or maybe feel too controlled in a certain context. They like to create a persona that embodies who they, who they are, in any way, and the animal part is kind of because maybe you have a favorite animal or maybe you have a something that fits your personality and you roll with that, and so you design this character that then in your online spaces whether it be, you know, whether it be like discord or twitch or, you know, at the cons, and if people actually are insuits, they get to shed who they normally don't like or feel very controlled or muted by, and be who they really want to be. And so I started wearing started off with a beanie and it was a beanie that kind of has like hyena design on it and has big ears, and and I wore a hoodie that has hyenas all over it. Obviously hyenas is my animal and my admin were really kind of nervous at first, to put it lightly. And so I remember coming in one day and one of them she said, talked to me. She said you know, I don't know how comfortable you know I am, or with parents are going to be with us. And I said here's where I'm going to tell you you need to back off because you don't understand. I explained it to her the exact same way that I just explained it to you and how. You know you'd be surprised. There are a lot of furs in the military because they get so forced into being in a box right that they like to escape that. And so I explained her to her that way and I said you have kids right now, or part of this community, who feel like nobody gets it that there's not a single adult. If they were to be open about being a furry or whatever to an adult, their parents would lose their minds. You know their friends may not understand. You have these kids who don't have anyone. And I said and if you don't, let me just wear my t shirts, that's all I'm asking. Just let me wear my t shirts. And you know, the occasional beanie or whatever, like you're cutting off those kids from feeling seen and from feeling heard and from feeling like they have somebody that they can approach, that gets it, that is a functional adult who is successful in what they do, that people respect. So you're going to mess this up and you're going to regret it. And at that point all four of my admin were on board and it got to this point where we were bringing in like sometimes if a kid was with our counselor and expressing, you know, that they were part of the community and were struggling with something or whatever, she'd bring them down to my room and introduce them to me and it was so nice to just be an adult with a smile and be able to be there and care and make them feel seen and respected and you'd be surprised. I mean, the thing about those kids too is that they're artistic, usually right, and they make beautiful art. And I've seen over the years when on Zoom we had one kid who was so proud of making her for her very first first suit mask, that they wore it in a Zoom meeting and once again, that distance right from being online. But it was such an empowering moment for that kid and you know I loved watching them start off trying to draw and not being the greatest, but then over time, you know just me telling them like you know, somebody will pay for it someday. If you just keep at it and then watching their growth, you know there's so much more to it that you can support and help build them up in that. You know seventh and eighth grade year that it's so valuable, and so I definitely think that I that was probably my biggest role that I played in connecting with, you know, the LGBTQ plus students was through that, and I say that because oftentimes there's that intersection of, you know, the furry fandom and the LGBTQ plus community.

Bryan (he/they): 28:26

Right Because it's not exclusively LGBTQ, though, like some might argue, like a queer theory. Right If you go to the philosophers might argue that anything that defies heteronormativity is queer. But like there are plenty of cisgender, heterosexual people who are in the furry community. Now something that I find really interesting in what, like your perspective on, is that these sensationalized stories have been coming out over the last few years of, like this kid has requested to be identified as a cat and uses a cat box, and like eats cat food at lunch and what not, which I believe is sensationalized, like, indeed like, sensationalized. But what is your like? How would you combat that in a situation where, like what if a parent came to your admin and was like, that teacher has high-end ears on what the heck like? And you know, it's just, it's so easy for people to focus on sex even when there's nothing involved in that realm, and I think that, because furry falls for some under, like, the fetish realm, that that's a hard, that's a hard sell. And I think it's super cool that you were able to talk to your admin in a very respectful way and whatnot. But I don't know, there are some people who are not rational. Like what, what?

Jake (he/him): 30:02

do you do to?

Bryan (he/they): 30:03

help protect your students and in those settings where like these are hypothetical. But if someone was like, and this person taught my kid that they could be a fox, or whatever you know well, so definitely like.

Jake (he/him): 30:16

When it comes to like those sensationalizations, which they totally are, I'm gonna remind, like each and every person who's out there listening right now, that you know for a fact that you had a totally interesting kid when you were in seventh or eighth grade who said that moving your arms like this as you ran made you run faster because it was like a cheetah or something you know you had. There was the kid who sat in the corner and occasionally made a hissing sound when they were mad. Right, we've all experienced that like level of like strangeness in in our own experience as students and you can't deny it, no matter what your age is, you know for a fact that you have experienced somebody who is strange and that's all they're doing is that they're taking somebody who is doing something that's a little bit outside the norm and will grow out of. It's worth noting. They will grow out of those moments, you know, and become completely functional adults. They all have, you know. I know the cheetah girl she's still. You know, I've seen her. She's doing just fine. She's not running like that anymore, right, they will grow out of those moments, right? So then they just try to take that and sensationalize it in order to upset people and make people think that public education is this like completely, you know, unadulterated, free-range zone where kids are just, you know, running amok, doing whatever it is that they please, and that is obviously not the truth any. Anybody who's been in public education can tell you that's the case. But when it comes to somebody who would try to sensationalize something like that for example, me having the ears it's one of the things where I honestly have always told I told admin, bring them in and I will have that conversation. If you don't feel comfortable having that conversation with them, I will sit them down and I will explain it to them in the exact same way that I explained it to my mom to get her to understand. You know, I'll explain it to whoever needs to hear. You know, and you're right, it's one of those things where it's the community sometimes is a little bit broader and there are some blurred lines on the edges there, but that's no different than you know. The same kind of thing with people who, for example, I'd like just forgive me sexy nurse costumes or sexy priest costumes for Halloween. People find that stuff attractive or whatever, and maybe even use it for their own bedroom purposes and that's but. That's them and that's all on them, and but that does not define me and it does not define my context of my community and my fandom. I love it because my dad was an art teacher for 25 years and I loved seeing the art that comes out of the furry community. There's so much love and care there. You know the amount of effort that people put into those suits is so amazing and so awesome. You can't discredit the love and the care that's there and that's the importance. Right is understanding that it's this beautiful, diverse group of people who have found a way to express themselves and be themselves in a non-traditional way, and I think that you know you could look at that. For example, I'm noticing the blue in your hair, right yeah something that is non-traditional way of expressing yourself, that, you know, in the 50s people would have lost their minds over in the same way, right, and that's where it's changing and we're, we as a culture, are evolving and you know, you're, we're starting to see those things become more acceptable, but it takes people being willing to make it acceptable and willing to stand up and speak up and and have those hard conversations, and I think that's the importance there. Right is, once you see it as being sensationalized, you have to sit people down and bring them back to earth, reel them back in and say like okay, like really, let's have a talk, you know.

Bryan (he/they): 33:57

I'm really intrigued right now. It got me like dovetailing in my brain of life. There needs to be a research study on like the, the tenets of furryism we'll say furryism and like indigenous cultures in which you are taking on the persona of this animal or whatnot, and because I feel like that instinct of connection between animals has been around for millennia so, like the fact that it's just coming to light in a new way, with or through, like costume and like it's not costume suits is so interesting to me, like I actually want. I just know I want some of the history like and if it can be connected back to those things well and and it's also worth, I'm not.

Jake (he/him): 34:51

I'm not sure if you can hear the, the lawnmower, the leaf blowers going on so, if you can, I apologize, but something that I also think is important that people also should realize I being, you know, gay male experienced. You know, in going through the online dating realm, I felt very unattractive. I felt, I mean, I was called all sorts of things, you know people the moment that they would see my face picture, they'd block me. You know, it was like it was this awful experience. It really felt terrible. It was so dejecting and I had taken a bit of a hiatus from the furry community and had gone to my first con and because of the persona that you build and being in suit or not and being online and just people seeing your, your avatar there, you know, it was so different because I had people who are, who are expressing genuine interest in me as a person and I felt beautiful and I felt accepted and I felt loved and appreciated in a way that was so far outside of what I was used to experiencing out of like the traditional, like online gay community, that that was kind of one of those moments, too, where I was, like, as a teacher, like our students should feel appreciated like this and oftentimes, you know, they're, like I said, people who are the furry community. Oftentimes it's because there's something they don't like about themselves, and so to let them feel appreciated for all of the other wonderful things about themselves, so they can forget even just for the tiniest second that there's something that they don't like about themselves, is so important. And to take that away from anybody would be such a such a bummer. You know, I don't know how else to word it. It would just be such a bummer and that's why I like to handle it the way that I did. But, like I said, I wasn't over about it. I didn't walk in and shout to my students hey, I'm a furry, you know it was. I wore the t-shirts and occasionally a kid would be like. You know, he has worn three t-shirts with hyenas on him in the past week. Something is up, you know and then at their own pace. Somebody might ask you know? And I just say you know what I am, you know and that's that. Or if they would ask really loud in the class, I would say would it change your opinion of me if I was? You've already enjoyed my class this far. Does it change that, you know? And and challenging them in that way and making them realize, oh well, I do enjoy his class, I do enjoy all the things that we do. I like him as a person. I guess it doesn't. You know I you would not believe how many times in my conversations saying that you know, would it change anything? And they go no, I guess not really.

Bryan (he/they): 37:28

All right, moving on yeah, there's one thing you pointed out that I just like I want to reiterate because I think that it's so important, is that in like the bullies don't leave when you focus on your own community, and so you're absolutely correct in that online dating or app dating in the queer community is rife full of racism and just like anti-isms there, like no fats, no fems like we want, you know, hyper masculine people. It's almost like plea for her heteronormativity. It's wild and so like being able to find your own space where you are accepted and treated. You know, beautiful or handsome, if that's whatever you your preference of like terminology is is so important, because it's not just a given it's. It's not just like okay, I'm a part of the queer community now and all the gay people can come to you like now like there are some real butt heads out there who will say some very horrible things that they're almost worse than the heterosexual, cisgender beliefs that people deal with in high school.

Jake (he/him): 38:47

And that's actually. You know, you brought back kind of a core memory here, that a something that my school, specifically that I was at, did up until recently, up until things started to get really, really kind of aggressive in the political sense. In Arizona we would do a thing called Minnetown and it was this awesome thing. We'd collect up and it was an opt-in, not an opt-out, so you know, you had to opt into going to Minnetown and it was a social emotional camp. We would take the kids up, you know, into the mountains and we'd get into some cabins and we would go through all of these things like one of the coolest exercises. And I won't lie, I never thought as a full grown adult that I would like lose my mind and cry so much. But they would have us take and write the worst thing you'd ever been called on a t-shirt and like the kids do it too, and and I mean, and we tell them, like you're here, this is understandable, like you know, we know what we're asking you to do, it's fine and they would write some awful, awful things that they had been called. And you get up there and you're. They make each person, every person out of the 150 people that are there, including us adults, that you go up on stage wearing this shirt and you wear it for all of dinner. Everybody sees this awful thing that you have been called the entire time and then, at the very end of the night, you get up on stage and you would talk about all of the things that you do love about yourself and you'd say, you know, I am strong and I am this and that, and at the very end you say this is not me and they would cut a little like snip it on the shirt and you would rip it. You know, and the amount of power that it gives you was so great and I think that that's one of those moments, too, where I loved seeing and I got to like experience. There were a lot of kids who would start to, you know, come out during that camp because they felt comfortable, because they got to shed those moments and they got to shed those insecurities and those harmful moments and those harmful perceptions. And I loved that camp and it breaks my heart, absolutely breaks my heart, that Arizona went on this, you know, tirade against social, emotional learning because it was so valuable and you would be I. There were times when we would have kids that sometimes I would ask myself like, mmm, I really don't know why you're here, like because you're the kind of person who is causing the problems, right, but then at by the end of that weekend, you would see why they were there, because you would see their understanding of the damage they've done, or you would see their change of heart, or you would see their evolution of character. And it was so valuable, you know, and it was really for everybody, and I really wish that other teachers got to experience such an amazing thing that I got to experience for three years, and it breaks my heart really, really cool and that like that action is almost like it's reminiscent of the scarlet letter right, like you're, you're branded.

Bryan (he/they): 41:43

And it's so funny because there's a sign that I've seen assignments like this in in high schools, where when they're reading the scarlet letter, that they will create their own scarlet letter of something that reflects something that was like about them, and then you know they have to go through. Whatever the process is. I don't know what those projects ended up, as I just saw a bunch of like letters, you know, taped to people's chest. But I think that idea of like, the shredding of it, that's so powerful because it's such a, it's a physical, it's an emotional, it's a visceral experience to be able to literally rip it off of yourself and say that's not me, so I can understand what you were crying. I just feel like that would have been like an hour and a half or two hours of just tears because it wasn't like power years.

Jake (he/him): 42:37

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off you're good but you'd think that, like doing it multiple years in a row, that you like you be prepared and you just never are. It's like it's always some kids that you've made a connection with that gets up there and they just they surprise you and then it's like the waterworks are going again, you know yeah, absolutely so.

Bryan (he/they): 42:57

I'm intrigued you, you said that you had some experiences that weren't necessarily great when you were in high school, and including, like, your dad's best friend, you know, talking about you. So what made you go into education?

Jake (he/him): 43:12

sure. So, to be honest, it was never a thought that I crossed my mind. Both my parents are teachers and it was one of those things where it's like, well, I guess if I need to, I can do it, but I really want to go into theater. I was always kind of my thing, I was on. Broadway. But I won't lie, due to a lot of different things and, for example, that kind of I'm trying to think of the right word because I don't really think the discriminations the right word here, but the like, the hate that I received online in the gay community really damaged my social emotionalness, and so I had no confidence and so I was like, well, there's no way I can make it in theater if this is how I feel about myself all the time. And I was taking my you know, my community college classes, and so my classmates were struggling and they were wanting to go into nursing and I was in science with them and so I was tutoring them and they said you know, you're great, you're so good at this, why don't you consider it? And I was like, oh well, I guess that's what I'll do. So I ended up in education that way, you know, and it wasn't particularly because my parents were teachers or anything, it just kind of landed in my lap. And so I went to a private Christian University, which was not my intention. They just had the best student union food and that's why I picked them. But it was maybe, I don't know, but but I, once again, I appreciated it the hardships that I had there. I had to take a class called Christian World View and it was all about trying to kind of I don't want to say brainwash you into being Christian, but definitely evaluate if it's something for you. And that class allowed me to really explore who I am and what I was experiencing and how I wanted to look at the world. And when I realized that I was one of the very few like 10 people that got an A on their paper in that class and that the Christian students who couldn't exactly relate why they felt the way that they did because of the fact that they've always been told to feel that way as opposed to internally exploring it and and coming to terms with it, you know, that was the moment where I was like, all right, I'm happy with who I am and I'm happy with my perspective and I'm happy with what I draw on or if I believe in a higher power, don't you know? I it was. It ended up being a really cool journey going to that private Christian University and I really didn't experience much hate for being gay, except for once. I had one girl. She asked me well, why are you here? and it was like I don't know, megan, to get an education like you like, really yeah and that was the only like that was one of the only two real moments where I had any like any major challenge of that school and ended up being great and giving me some beautiful, wonderful friends and so that all of that kind of played a role into then me going into education. And I found a girl in one of my education classes who said, hey, we need to both teach at this district because it's one of the best in the Valley, like you know. And lo and behold, I got a job in that district. She just feared I don't know where she went. She just I know sorry again, it was like odd darn, but she, but her advice, sent me to a place that was amazing. The first school, not so much, it was hard, there were some challenges but the second school, I admit that I will probably never find a school like it. I will never find admin that are so supportive and so loving and so awesome, and it's very rare for you to find teachers who love their admin like they do at my school. I mean, realistically, and to be in a school where I felt so comfortable that I could be connected with the kids in my own way and for them to feel comfortable enough to be connected with me in that way, and everything about that school was so lucky, you know. So it's one of those things. Lots of little incidences and coincidences came together to put me there and I think it was necessary. I really do. I think that I was sent there for a reason and whatever sent me there. Like I said, coincidences or not, it was where I belonged and I'm really lucky that I got to be there while I was that's awesome.

Bryan (he/they): 47:16

I think that's really wonderful. I'm so sad that that girl disappeared like what a twist, oh my god. But one last question for you is thinking about, like the way society is right now, and you talked a lot about social, emotional learning and that it's kind of being pulled back upon, right? So what are the things that educators, administrators, parents, what are things that we can do to make school more inclusive for LGBTQ students?

Jake (he/him): 47:52

I think the three things for me are stand-up when you do face adversity. Stand-up one of the things about that previous school that I was at before I ended up at this amazing one that I that I've been at, I had parents complain that I had mentioned offhand that I had a boyfriend. I said, oh, this weekend we did this. We went across the mountains and we found some beautiful stones and it relates to our lesson, whatever it was, I can't remember, but they complained about that. And admin said you can't, you can't see that you have a boyfriend. And I stood up and I said if, so-and-so, can have, you know, a picture of her wedding in her classroom and can wear a cross and wear her wedding ring, then I can mention that I have a boyfriend. And I said if you continue on this path, and I said you have full right to do so. I said I will call every news outlet that will listen. I said don't think I won't. And the next day she came up to me. She's like I'll take every arrow that you need me to. And I was like, damn right, you will stand up, like stand up for yourself. Stand up when you see others who are, you know, not able to, or unwilling to, stand up. That's like. The first thing is. We know we aren't. We've gotten into this culture of everything is because everything that we read out is online on our cell phones, kind of. It's interesting how everything's tying up and tying all back together. But you, that disconnect that you feel is why you feel so othered about things and you say like, oh well, that's just happening to that district, it's not happening in mine or it's, you know, not happening in my state, because you're too busy, focused on the stuff that feels far away and so you're not there. So when you feel it in your community or when you see it in your community, you stand up immediately, you know, and you speak out and and don't be afraid to raise your voice or go to a news outlet, you know, or even just threatened to go to a news outlet, it will. It will make a difference. And the other part is being yourself, being your true, honest, god, genuine, authentic self. I definitely feel like the connections that I have made are so lasting. You know, I was walking my dog the other night. It was 11 o'clock, it was pitch black outside and I was almost home and I heard mr Brown from like the dark corner and I turn and this was hopping out of his car to come and say hi to me. You know, it's one of those things where you know it's just being yourself and being like and I don't say toxically positive, but being positive about who you are and happy with who you are, and going in and sharing that with those kids every single day is going to make a difference. And if they're not willing, like if they're not part of the community, but they love you as a person, or you give them the appreciation to love their classmates in such a way, then they will stand up too. You know, it's about building that. So the more that you're your authentic self and you allow others to be their authentic selves and you build that culture in your room, you're going to have, you're gonna create a whole group of people who are willing to stand up for what is right, and that's what matters. This is so interesting.

Bryan (he/they): 50:55

I was at a Comic-Con last week or the week before here in San Antonio and there there was a Luigi walking around and I was like that guy looks familiar. And then we were buying you know posters or whatever at the stand and he comes up and goes Do you work at such a such high school? I was like no, but I used to. Because, yeah, I never had you, but like Thank you for you know, being there and doing what you do and because, like, you just made the place better. And it's like this person, like in the total straight dude there with this girlfriend, was like Thank you for being yourself at this school because it made it better. And it's like I recognized him but never had him. Can't tell you his name. But the fact that he, like two years after graduation or whatever, sees me randomly at a comic-con in this like I Need to come up and tell you this. You really are, just by being yourself, making it okay for people to Be more accepting and then be willing to stand up for what's right.

Jake (he/him): 52:02

Yeah, and and I like, I totally feel that you know, I've had kids from previous years that were not my students come in and build a great relationship with me afterwards, you know, because they just are stopping by to say hi to their old. Some of the eighth grade teachers are high school that we feed into is very close, so they'll sometimes just stop by and it's so wonderful. But even those kids, sometimes you build relationships with them after the fact and that's still a valuable connection. That's totally worth happening. And that leads me into one more thing that is worth noting. I had and this this played a role in me kind of making my exit because we did the Antipersonal library in the classroom thing. At the end of every year I Would pick mmm eight kids, from five to eight kids who made an impact on my year, maybe whether they were hard and rough and it was a challenge, or maybe they were the kid who Said something to me or did something for me on a day where I needed it. But I would find those kids who made an impact on me and I would buy them a copy of one of my two favorite books and Then I would spend three weeks writing handwritten letters on the new leaf page About who they are as a person and what challenges I think they might have in high school and how I handle those challenges. So giving advice but making once again, it's all about making them feel seen and Giving them those books and it's like the one thing that, like, I take a lot of pride in. I have loved that tradition and it is always made a difference, and so I guess what I want to say to you is Build tradition to like if you're, if you're a new teacher or you're wanting to. That's another way to build community Is building those traditions, those little things. You have no idea. I just this summer Received a message. It was like maybe two days before my birthday. I received a message from a name that I immediately recognized on Facebook and it was a girl that I had had my second-year teaching and she told me, you know, she said I read that book Twice a year. And she said and I never realized that I could even have a favorite book until you gave it to me and you know, and she said and now I'm gonna be a teacher because of everything you did for me and and all that and, like I said, it's something that I know means a lot to me. But the fact that those little things that you do, whether it be decorating your walls with their art that they give you, even if it's not always the greatest, but showing off that you're proud of them for trying anyways. Whatever you do your little traditions, they will love and appreciate it and that will, like I said, build that community that will help Stand up and be there for you and anybody else who needs it when they need it.

Bryan (he/they): 54:45

Absolutely Really quick. Before we go into this final bit where you get to ask me questions, I just want to know what are the two books?

Jake (he/him): 54:55

The thief of always by Clive Barker, and that's the one that makes me nervous and part of the reason why I made my exit. It is written by a gay author. It's a light. I mean, I already mentioned I love horror, so it's a young adult horror novel, absolutely phenomenal. It was the book that made me love reading and I had a teacher who gave it to us as required reading and when I was a Sophomore in high school and I'm pretty sure he said you know, let's not do any of the required actual reading and we're just gonna read horror novels all year because we read, like lovely bones, stephen King, the thief of always. But it was wonderful, right, and that was the book that made me fall in love with reading, and that's one of them. And then the other one is Something wicked. This way comes by Ray Bradbury, also a horror novel, but a little bit more. I don't want to say mature, but the writing is a little bit drier, so that I, like you know some kids who are, who need a little bit easier reading versus. It's something that's a little bit more mature. Yeah those are the two and they both have similar themes and it's perfect for seventh and eighth grade about About growing up versus not growing up and when it's okay to be an adult and when it's okay to still be a kid, and All of those themes are kind of intertwined in those two books and I think it's a perfect little nugget for somebody who's about to go to high school.

Bryan (he/they): 56:15

That's awesome. I love that. All right, this is your chance now to ask me any questions that you might have.

Jake (he/him): 56:21

So fire what? Sure? So I guess my I had like two major questions. The first one is what made you decide that the podcast was what you wanted to do to make an impact in the community?

Bryan (he/they): 56:39

so in 2020 and 2021 one, those were like the hardest years teaching the end of 2020. I mean, that was kind of easy, was like skating into the last few weeks of school here in Texas at least, because we ended in early May but then going into 2021-22 school year was incredibly hard and I Was feeling like I Was a part of a catch-22 in the sense that I Was nominated and selected to be the district teacher of the year. Because I do a lot of social, emotional learning work and philanthropy work and whatnot through my theater program, and so I was the teacher of the year. I got these wonderful prizes Like I got to drive a brand new car for a year. No car thing, just brand new car for you, super cool. I have a Tiffany's apple Because I'm also a Trinity University excellence in education honor, really like that's a big award that happens locally and All these wonderful things were happening. I was also very publicly out because I have children and we were starting to see the turnaround that was coming from conservative pushbacks at school boards, and so at the same time I had folks who were running for the school board on the platform, oh, let's get that bag out of our school. And so there was no place For me to share my story. I. Even tried like I documented a bunch of stuff that it happened over the years, but because I never filed HR complaints, there was no case with certain things. I also found out later that that school district has a propensity to pay attorneys not to file suit against them, which is super fun. But there was no space for me to share my story and so after a year of thinking about it, starting in the summer of 21, I Decided in 22 that I was just gonna do it. I talked about it with my husband I talked to a friend of mine who runs an educational theater podcast to get kind of what do you do Like how do you even start a podcast? And then I just went for it and it's because I feel like. There are all these educational podcasts that are geared towards specific people or specific groups or specific ideas, but there's no place for queer educators, administrators or professionals in general and education industry to Share their stories and our stories are currently actively being erased. We are currently seeing book bandings that have to do with queer stories. We're saying queer teachers getting fired. We are saying don't say gay, and so this is my response to All of those things is to make sure that we will still and continue to have a space where we can Share our stories, and that's how this kind of came about. And now here we are, season two, and I could be more pleased because I get the privilege of like Getting to know all these people from around the world, because I talk to people from other countries, so it's just really. It's really neat because I get to learn about people and I get to have shared experience with people, and some of these folks like have become closer friends than you know some people that I had previously. So it's really like it's a labor of love, because podcasting isn't really about making money, it's really about just providing the space, and so I I'm just really pleased with it, and it all came out of wanting to share my story and not having a space to share it.

Jake (he/him): 1:00:49

Thanks for that. What's the?

Bryan (he/they): 1:00:51