Jacob Boergesson's Battlegrounds: Teaching, Advocacy, Parenting, and Cosplay

Bryan: 0:27

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for 2S LGBTQ+ educational professionals to share their experiences in academia. Hi, I'm your host, Bryan Stanton, a theater pedagogy and educator in New York City, and my goal is to share stories from around the world from 2S LGBTQ plus educators. I hope you enjoy Teaching While Queer. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, Bryan Stanton, and today I'm so excited I have Jacob Boergesson with me. Did I say your name correctly?

Jacob: 1:07

Boergesson yeah.

Bryan: 1:08

Yeah, awesome. Where are you joining us from, jacob?

Jacob: 1:12

Hi there everyone. So I am joining you from Wallingford, Connecticut.

Bryan: 1:17

Wallingford, I have no idea where that's at.

Jacob: 1:21

So I always tell people that it's in the New Haven area, because more people tend to know where that is.

Bryan: 1:26

Oh for sure absolutely, and you are leaving education, but what did you teach and how long were you teaching?

Jacob: 1:36

So I was a teacher for the last nine years. I was certified in music, pre-k through 12th grade, so I worked at four different schools. Throughout my career I taught every single grade level possible. Most recently, the job that I just left, I was the middle school choir general music teacher for the last five years, where I taught grades six or eight. In addition to teaching there, I ran the drama club and I ran an audition select choir group as well.

Bryan: 2:07

So those of us who teach electives, we get all that like after school responsibility. It's super fun.

Jacob: 2:15

Absolutely. And they're like oh, but you get a stipend which is like probably 10 cents an hour by the time you do the math right.

Bryan: 2:22

Yeah, you never do the math. It makes you feel bad. Just don't do the math, folks.

Jacob: 2:26

No, everybody told me to do it and I said I really don't want to, because then I'm just gonna be really sad.

Bryan: 2:31

Yeah, real upset. I feel that right. So let's take a journey back in time. Can you tell me a little bit what it was like for you as a queer student?

Jacob: 2:43

Sure. So growing up I probably I will be honest, it's like I didn't run to, which was fortunate I didn't run into as many issues as some others did. I grew up in a really small town. To give you a perspective, my class was the biggest graduating class ever and there was only 94 of us. So it was, yeah, so very, very, very small and so pretty much everybody within our grade. It's like there were, there were clicks, quote, unquote, but it was like you know, everybody kind of all got along with each other because it was such a small, tight-knit group and everybody was kind of friendly with each other as far as, like you know, I wasn't out. I wasn't out until like the tail end of my senior year of high school and you know I would occasionally get, you know, comments here and there it's like, oh, jake Bergeson's gay, jake Bergeson's queer, blah, blah, blah, blah. But fortunately it's like I had a good friend base that would stand up for me and it was never to a point where I was like dreading going to school and dreading, you know, interacting with anybody. I would say I still had a very positive experience. I think a lot of people had guessed that I was going to come out at some point. We did have a GSA Gay Straight Alliance when I was in high school and by my senior year I was the president.

Bryan: 4:05

So me too. I was the founding president of ours.

Jacob: 4:11

Oh were you. That's, awesome.

Bryan: 4:13

And so how do you feel like in some aspects, to like it's very lucky that you got to be in a place where you didn't deal with as much animosity as most and I feel also that kind of like privilege, like I got the occasional comments, but nothing like too extreme. How do you feel that your upbringing has helped you when it comes to being a queer teacher on campus and kind of representing a community?

Jacob: 4:41

Sure, yeah. So I think that my whole upbringing definitely helped a lot because I really for the longest time like wasn't, you know? I wasn't ever really afraid to be my authentic self, for the most parts, you know, obviously. You know, when I came out to my family I was obviously nervous, because you never quite know how parents might respond to that, even though I knew both of my parents were very liberal and very understanding and very accepting. It's still, you know, it's hard when it's your own child sometimes to hear that. And I know, for me, like my mom, when I came out she was really upset wasn't upset that I was gay when I told her that I was gay, but more so, just upset because she, you know, started thinking about some of the things that I might have to endure, you know, and I think that was what was hardest for her. But I think what was really nice about that was because I sort of had that support system feeding my way into college. Like when I went to college I was like, yeah, all bets are off, like gay, gay, gay. Like, you know, not hiding anything, here I am and then, you know, once I started teaching, I think I had been so out at that point for such a long time. It didn't even, it wasn't really even second nature. You know, kids would ask me like oh, mr B, you're gay. I'd be like, yeah, so I was like I said it's like I didn't really have any where where I was teaching where I felt like I had to hide. That that's awesome, which I think helped. Yeah.

Bryan: 6:13

Do you think that has an impact on the students that you work with, that they get to see you be authentic out there in the classroom?

Jacob: 6:22

Oh, 100 percent, because I think that when you know, when kids go to school, I think the biggest thing that they need to see is they need to see someone who might emulate them in some way, whether that's you know, their interests, their sexual orientation, their race, their gender identity. I think it's really important for kids to see that when they go into any kind of school, and I think that sometimes schools can sometimes struggle with that, because there can be kids there where they come in and they're saying I don't think that there's anybody here like me or who looks like me or who understands me, and so I think that, you know, being my most authentic self, I don't know. I think it just automatically helps with the whole rapport that you have with your students, because when I was a teacher, that was the most important thing to me. You know, it's like I, you know I remember one of my old superintendents saying he's like, listen, it's like if I had a teacher with, like you know, who taught really well and like you know, test scores up the wazoo and the kids were going to Harvard and this and stuff like that, but he had no rapport with the students. He was like I would take the teacher of any day, the one that actually builds relationships with their students and creates that you know climate in their classroom over the test scores and stuff.

Bryan: 7:47

I was talking with a friend of mine last night and he is an orchestra teacher. And he was telling me about one of his mentors when he was going to grad school who has an article out that basically did some research where, like music teachers who have like gay voice or queer voice are rated as better teachers and then, they get like a better performance quality, they get better engagement with their students. But then those who had like heterosexual voice is the way the terminology was using, so it was like gay voice and heterosexual voice. We're considered stronger leaders and interesting I find that so interesting because I think there are a lot of us in the queer community who are teachers who get to that rapport really quickly, and I think that falls into like maybe students or whomever on this study or whatnot perceive it as like not necessarily strong leadership skills, but like, honestly, if you don't have rapport with people, you're not going to get the end results that you want.

Jacob: 9:02

No, and that trickles down to you know just. You know, not just teacher to student but, like you know, admin to teachers. You know you know if admin doesn't have good rapport with the teachers then it's not. You know, it's not a positive environment for everybody. And kids can also sense that. Kids can sense when there's tension between teachers and administrators or teachers and other teachers. They, you know, they really pick up on that stuff. And they know, like I've had students say to me they're like, oh, mr B, like she doesn't get along with her, does she? And I'm just like I don't know what she mean. But it's true, they pick up on that stuff so much.

Bryan: 9:47

So, I followed you for years and so I have like a side question Do you ever use your cosplay to help build rapport with your students? Because you are an avid cosplayer.

Jacob: 10:00

Yeah. So what's interesting is that. So I've used it for a couple different things within the classroom. So up until and I don't know how it took me until this last school year for me to actually get like Marvel posters in my classroom. I just kind of kept putting it off. Actually, no, I remember what happened now. It's like I had them ordered from Amazon and something happened and then they got lost and then I got sad and then so I didn't order them because I was in a band when I was like oh, fm is like annoyed. And then so this year I finally got them, which the kids picked up on because they're like that's pretty on brand for you. But what was interesting is that it's helped. It did definitely help build record with a lot of my kids, because once they know that, you know, once they knew that I was a big old nerd, it's like they felt like they would be allowed to express that and stuff like that. Like I loved talking to my kids about stranger things and you know the MCU and Star Wars and stuff like that whenever new shows came out. It's just, you don't even have to be too you know obvious about it, but even if like something. Example, it's like a kid walks into the stranger things shirt and it's the first day of school and I say to myself I'm like, all right, they might be a little quiet. I was like I'm gonna let them, you know, get used to me. But then at some point I can kind of go over there and be like, oh, you like stranger things. You know, it's like I love stranger things, you know, and it's funny, it's like some of the kids, some of the kids are all about my TikTok and stuff like that and they think it's great and stuff like that. And some of them it's like, you know, I catch them making fun of me because you know they're like, ooh, he's in his 30s, he does cosplay, whatever. But hey, you know, I always tell them I'm like, well, you know, I could really care less what a 12 year old thinks about me at this point, you know, at this point in my life. But it has been good for that and it actually helped the last two years with raising funds for the toy donations that we did, because we always did so. We have Connecticut Children's Medical Center which is the primary purpose of our toy drive, and then my district also does a program called the Holiday Bear, where the social worker and the psychologist they work and kind of figure out which students we might have that might be in need of help, you know, for gifts and things during the holidays and stuff like that. And so I randomly thought of it on a whim back in 2021, where, like, I posted a picture of myself in Captain America, like with a Santa hat under my Christmas tree, just like holding the presents, and I was like, hey, like you know, if anybody wants to donate, like you know, I'm gonna go. You know, donate, go shopping for presents, you know, here's my Venmo, and stuff like that. And then I got 400 bucks and I couldn't believe how generous people were. And then this year I, you know, did it again and I brought a couple of my cosplay friends with me, which was really funny, because so this year we went of as Christophe on an Elsa from Frozen, and so we went to the one of the walls not walls malls up in Massachusetts and there were so many people waiting in line to meet Santa. But I'll never forget there was this girl that, like, saw the girls and was like, mom, I don't wanna meet Santa, I wanna meet Elsa. And we ended up taking as many pictures as Santa did and it was actually kind of it was cool for my friend Sam, because her who was dressed as Elsa, she runs a princess party business, so she was able to be like oh well, here's my card If you ever want parties and stuff like that. But I would say overall, yeah, the whole cosplay thing definitely helped a lot in the long run, not just for, like you know, the fundraising, like I said before, but just again, you know, building more rapport about, you know, nerd stuff.

Bryan: 13:38

Yeah, it's funny because I say and I've told this to my students that, like I personally, as a theater teacher, believe that teachers are the best actors on the planet, because you, as a student, only get to learn what the teacher wants you to learn about them, and so I think that when you have those moments where you get to like geek out with your students, that it just automatically creates a bond, and so that bond is harder to break than if it was something superficial.

Jacob: 14:10

Oh yeah, 100%, and the big thing that was. So I don't know if you know, I don't know if you ever watched that show when it was on, but it's like if you're familiar with Dance Moms. So Dance Moms has had like Dance Moms had like a TikTok, not sorry, had like a COVID renaissance, where all of a sudden now like all of the kids like my age are watching a show, and the amount of like quotes back and forth with Dance Mom quotes that like my girls and I would do during like drama club, it was insane. It got to the point where they would be like they would. It would got to the point that be like, can we watch Dance Moms and chorus? I'm like, no, we can't watch Dance Moms and chorus class girls, come on.

Bryan: 14:48

Not today. We'll wait for finals, not today.

Jacob: 14:52

I think we did. I think we. Now that I look back on it, I think we actually did, like the very last week of school and everything was said and done. I said, all right, fine, we're putting it, we put like a best of like moments on, and stuff like that, and we just all laughed and had a good time.

Bryan: 15:05

I think that last year during finals both the fall semester and the spring semester at some point or another we were just playing Smash Bros on my projector. So, that's how things end up when you're an elective teacher, at the end of the year going like I don't have anything to test you on. Here's the project.

Jacob: 15:26

No, absolutely. Or I'm like, well, you already did your chorus concert. I'm like I don't know what you, I don't know what you really want. And then those last days of the year just get so crazy anyway, because it's like, oh well, today is a half day, today's not a half day, and this grade's on a field trip and this grade's not you know. It's like we got to a point the specials teachers where the PE teacher was just like, bring them all to the gym. If they want to play, they can. If they don't, maybe we'll figure out something. Like there was one day he had like dodgeball going on in there and I brought some kids. I was like, hey, if anybody wants to do karaoke, we're going in the auditorium. You know, just think about it. By that time in the school year it's like they're not going to learn anything new. Their brains are fried. The school year is way too long, as it is Absolutely.

Bryan: 16:13

So you have made a decision this year to leave education. Do you mind talking a little bit about why you made it?

Jacob: 16:20

Sure. So what was interesting was when I decided to leave, it came as a bit of a shock to my not so much my closest friends, you know, and my fiance, because they had known for a long time that I wasn't really happy Hold the phone.

Bryan: 16:34

Newly engaged fiance.

Jacob: 16:36

Oh, yes, yes, newly engaged, yes, yay, congratulations. So thank you. Yeah, so we, you know. So I really knew for a long time. It was interesting because we I had honestly thought about leaving after the 2020 school year, but March of 2020, we all got set home, you know, and I kind of just decided to stick it out because I was getting my masters at the time and I somehow finagled a way to do my masters full time for two years, while teaching full time Don't really recommend it because I who's very busy those two years. But hey, if you can, if you can swing it, go for it.

Bryan: 17:19

I am currently in that boat working on my MFA, so I totally get that.

Jacob: 17:23

There you go. Yeah, that was me. I was getting my masters of music for opera, so I was just like I'm not gonna. But so it had really been on my mind for a long time and I think, finally, this school year I don't know if it was necessarily anything about this particular school year that sent me over the edge where something really awful happened and I said absolutely not, I can't do this anymore. I think, just I was getting towards the end of the school year. You know, for me, I mean and I know you do you know theater also, you know. So for me it's like our big musical is in March and that eats up my life December through when the show is over. So once that was done, you know, I said to myself after like a week or so I was like, yeah, it's time. I just knew that it was time for me to finally make the plunge. And what I said was I had thought about it the year before too and I started kind of applying to jobs back last summer but hadn't officially resigned. And you know, I said to myself I was like, if I don't, I was like if I don't just resign and do it, then I'm always going to drag my feet on finding another job, whereas with this I said I was like I'm going to resign and that's kind of kind of like the fire under my you know asked to actually find a job, you know. And so, you know, after it was, after spring break, in April, you know, I went to my principal's office. I explained to her what was going on. You know, at first she was, you know, at first she was a little surprised, you know, because she kind of didn't see it, didn't really see it coming, as did a lot of my coworkers. But she was also very understanding and really supportive and you know, she even admitted, like you know how hard you know it's gotten, you know, and she's relatively close to retirement. And she even said that she was like I wasn't really counting my years and the last couple of years she was like I'm definitely counting my years now. So, yeah, so I guess if I could say, like, if there were any specific reasons for it, I mean I could probably like roll out a red carpet and, yeah, pull out a big list and stuff like that. But I think that the biggest thing that really was upsetting to me is that there's so much changing within a lot of the education system that's not benefiting the students, and we're here for the students, you know, and I just I don't know when decisions are made where it doesn't directly benefit the students, I'm just a little confused as to why those decisions are being made and they're happening more and more and more. I don't know like if I could give one example, like the biggest thing that I'm seeing is that, at least in my district, is that they were hiring, you know all of these positions in the central office. You know that were not even like instructional coaches, more of like supervisor type jobs and you know making, you know in the, you know well over the six figure numbers and stuff like that. And I was just I said to myself I was like, but how is this directly benefiting the students and why is this being hired when they're not in classrooms, they're not directly servicing the students? And then you still have teachers and paraprofessionals getting severely underpaid. I mean, I say it all the time. You know it's like you know, teachers, 1,000% are underpaid.

Bryan: 21:00

But like paraprofessionals, oh my gosh, those folks are making like a pentance hourly wage.

Jacob: 21:08

Seriously, and it's not like they're just, you know, sitting there doing nothing. It's like they're in the trenches with us or there's some that are, you know, they service, like you know, some of our kids that have one-to-ones, you know, in their IEPs, and I'm like, if they're not there, like I will call the office and I'll be like, listen, so-and-so's one-to-one is not here today. This is gonna be a problem, like someone either needs to be here or we need to figure something out, because the student cannot not have this, or yeah, so I just feel I just I don't know. So that was my biggest discouragement is like, you know, the distribution of funds. It's like why are we paying for, you know, all of these positions that aren't directly benefiting the kids and why aren't we putting more money into the? You know the people that are actually servicing the kids.

Bryan: 21:57

Absolutely, and it's funny because I do a lot of like advocacy work with different organizations here in Texas. I'm actually in the process of moving from San Antonio to New York, to New York City, because I well, I can't teach in a state where they're going to tell me I have to be in the closet.

Jacob: 22:13

So which is a?

Bryan: 22:14

thing that just happened For those who don't pay attention to Texas politics. They passed the don't say gay thing here, so when did they do that? In the early summer it was the end of their sessions they passed eight anti-LGBTQ bills but we killed 443 anti-LGBTQ bills. So the eight they got through include a don't say gay in the classroom kind of thing. The wording is a little bit different than Florida, but it's still not good. And then they passed a non anti-gender affirming care for all people. So I have friends who are trans who are telling me that their doctors are already saying like I will give this to you as long as I can. And it's like their hormones and stuff like the things that they take to be themselves, who have like fully transitioned or clearly a man, and it's just like super frustrating.

Jacob: 23:16

See, and that just breaks my heart because so we, you know, to go on kind of a side tangent from that, so we got, we got really lucky here. So we, jim and I, found this doctor's office when we went to get vaccinated for monkey pox back last fall. But we're, but we are going to a doctor now that is a complete, you know, lgbtq doctors office and yeah, and it's just, and the thing that, the thing that really makes me happy whenever I go, I mean, obviously the whole thing makes me happy, you know, because you go in it's nice and vibrant, there's flags everywhere and you know, everybody there is so nice and supportive. You know, my, my doctor is this, you know, beautiful trans woman who is just wonderful and but you know, seeing the kids there, seeing the kids there, is what makes me the most happy, because I'm like, wow, they're in a space where they are getting the right care for what they're going through. And you know, there's other places that don't you know, that don't have it, you know, and for me it's 10 minutes from my house, so it's like for all I, for all I know, it's like there could be. I would bet money, you know, that there's parents taking their kids there. They're probably driving two hours, you know, because they want to go, like you know, somewhere like that. But it's just, you know, I don't know. It makes me sad that you know we're in the same country, yet we're in two different worlds, you know.

Bryan: 24:38

Yeah, if you ask Texas, texas believes it's its own country. It's kind of stupid down here, but I and I moved here from California, so it's like my perspective of Texas is different than people who have lived here forever. Like they have their own Sure, their own pledge, like there's a Texas pledge that students say in the morning along with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Jacob: 25:01

So they have. So the kids do two pledges every morning.

Bryan: 25:04

One to Texas and one to the country.

Jacob: 25:07

Oh my God, the first one's bad enough.

Bryan: 25:10

Yeah, I agree with you. So before the side rail and talking politics. I do a lot of advocacy work right, and so one of the things that was really big after COVID was the use of these like so called ESSER funds ESSERS and acronym for like the emergency funds that were given to schools to help with learning gaps and whatnot. And what I saw was a lot of what you're talking about, where these ESSER funds were creating positions that didn't directly impact the students. Meanwhile, there were resources in there for additional arts teachers and additional paraprofessionals and additional like you could use it to justify additional hiring and they didn't hire positions that directly worked with the students. Like in the district that I was in, they had hired two people who were intervention specialists and those folks basically just like, created plans for kids, but then all the work happened with other folks who were there to help, you know, get these grades up or like get these tests passed, because it really comes down to standardized testing, right and yeah they hired two specialists for, like, the whole school district. And I'm just like there's these millions and millions of dollars in funds that's being offered by the federal government for you to bring more resources to students in your classroom. You hired two people for the whole district, like, and that's the thing that is mind boggling to me is it's when you do have these resources, everybody says and it is very well known that education is underfunded, but when the resources are made available, right seems like they're being misused.

Jacob: 27:02

Yeah, 100% yeah. And we have that same thing in our district. Like you know, they hired a math supervisor and a language arts supervisor who, frankly, I couldn't tell you what they do all day, you know, it seems like they. One of my coworkers joked and said they have meetings to have meetings. I mean that's the right, you know, and it's and you know it's sad because and I think also that another people, another group of people that get a really bad reputation are the people who are instructional coaches, because I think sometimes they think that those people are the same and they're not. And I think that, and I think the other problem also is that you can get, like you know, because you know, instructional coaches, they're making, like you know, an admin salary, you know, and you have some of them who do amazing, go above and beyond, and then you have some that do the bare minimum, so that group gets a bad rep also. Like when I my first job, when I taught in Artford, we had a math coach and a reading coach in our building and the two of them were incredible, Like they were not just hiding in their offices every day, it's like they were in every single lunch wave, getting to know all the kids you know, going into every single classroom and helping and saying stuff like, let me pull that small group for math and let me help them. And she was like, what are you doing this week? And she was like, ooh, let me make you an anchor chart, let me make you a this, let me do this for you. It was all. Just, let me help, let me help. Let me help, let me help, because I don't actually have a class that I'm teaching and grading and planning and stuff like that. They're like let me help as much as I can. And then you have other ones where I'm like they. Let's just say, I had one where I had a student in Artford. She was very, let's just say, outspoken and one day one of the coaches came in and she my student literally said who's that? Does she work here? So this lady just came in off the street, exactly and clearly, that's not somebody who's making a presence around the school. If an eighth grader by the month of April is like, who is that?

Bryan: 29:11

Yeah, absolutely, having been on that campus for a couple of years, you know.

Jacob: 29:16

Exactly.

Bryan: 29:18

Yes, I agree that the biggest frustration that I can see is the appropriation of funds. So I totally understand where you're coming from, especially when you're an arts teacher with all the extracurricular activity going on and there's seemingly endless funds for other programs and not any help or funds for yours? Totally Yep. So let's talk a little bit about what it was like for you, going into the classroom, if you were to sit down with someone who is queer and they're going into their first year of teaching, like, what advice would you give them about being authentic?

Jacob: 29:58

I mean, and granted, there's everybody is different in that regard, because you might have a teacher that's going into the classroom and they're not comfortable with you know being out, and I trust me, I completely get that Everybody. You know everybody. As I always say, it's like everybody spreads their wings and flies at you know different times. But I will say this is that, regardless of whether it's your, you know, sexual orientation or just your personality, is that if you're not being your authentic self in your classroom, your kids will know and your kids are not going, because the other big part of that is building the rapport and the trust, because Howard Kidd's supposed to trust someone who's not, you know being themselves, and we also, you know from, at least in my experience. You know, the first school that I ever taught in was, you know, very, you know very urban. A lot of kids that came from you know not a lot. And you know one of the social workers you know described it to me one day. She said you know she's like you're already going to have kids coming up here with a million barriers and you know a million different trust issues for whatever reason, because maybe, like you know, a parent left out of nowhere or something you know traumatic happened to them so and you know they're also. There's also kids there where it's like you know this is the place during the day. This is the only time they will eat and this is the only time that they will feel like they're actually really 100% safe. So you know, if they're already coming in there with their guard up, you know and you're not being your true, authentic self. I'm not saying it's going to lead to, you know, complete issues if you don't come out right away, but at a certain point, you know kids know when you're not, you know being you, you know and and I think, and I think that the other thing that it does also not just even with, like, you know, our sexual orientation, but it's like like we were talking about before with you know, tv shows we like, you know, and other things like that, it just it humanizes us, you know, it humanizes teachers, because then kids realize like, oh wait, so they like the same kind of stuff that I do. So there's a little bit of a barrier, you know, broken there. It could be anything, you know. It could be TV shows, it could be movies, it could be sports teams, you know, whatever. Whatever those kids you know recognize, you know it's good for them.

Bryan: 32:34

I'll be the first to admit that I got into stranger things because of my students, and then once I started watching it I was like, oh well, I'm addicted, right. Now I'm just like waiting with anticipation for the next year, for the season to come out, yeah year. Yeah. Well, I'm right in the strike and the acting strike and it's funny because, like I'm here, I'm here for the unions I really am. I was cast on Netflix, nailed it like the baking TV show and I went out to LA and I filmed half an episode and then IOTC went on strike and they shut down the production and so my episode never aired, but like while I was sitting in my hotel in Burbank, you know, not being on the. TV show. I was like you know what, I am here for the union, like I believe that those people need to be paid more, and especially after being there, because I was there for like a 14 hour day as a contestant, which means that all those people who were working crew were there before and after me.

Jacob: 33:41

Right yeah, 100% yeah.

Bryan: 33:45

It's interesting, especially as cosplayer right now. Right, Because San Diego Comic Con is happening right now as we speak and I'm from San Diego, and so there's a lot of like how do we handle cosplay at Comic Con with the strike happening?

Jacob: 34:01

Yeah, and so, thankfully, like what's been really good for us is because, you know, me and my cosplay friends, we have a con that we're all planning to go to in Boston in August. And you know, we started to think, like we were like, okay, like what's? We're all kind of on eggshells for a second. We're like, okay, what's actually going to be allowed? Like should we still go? The trip is all non refundable. But also we want to support, you know, the unions. But a lot of new stuff has come out about you know what's allowed for cosplayers and there's a lot more you know allowed for us than you know what people realize. Like you know, they said something came out actually yesterday that said, like you know, going to a con is not, you know, is not considered. Like you know, crossing the picket line, like you know, doing cosplay online, the big thing that, like I am a friend who also, I think he might live in San Diego, he lives in somewhere in California, he's a TikTok friend of mine but it's like, but he's he's kind of stuck. No, not CJ. Oh, I love CJ.

Bryan: 35:02

I love CJ too. He's another one. I know each other from San Diego oh that's hilarious.

Jacob: 35:08

No, I know I know who he is too, but I was talking about this other guy and so he posted that he's kind of put the brakes on his for a little while, but that's because he has plans to hopefully one day joint sag Right, whereas, whereas with myself, you know that's not. You know that's not my point. Yeah, exactly. And other people said it's like we don't want you to stop doing like, for example, my friend Sam's business, like they don't want people to stop doing, you know, princess parties. They don't want them to stop. You know, visiting children's and hospital children in hospitals. Like you know, they don't want people to stop their streaming services, they said, because that's just going to give them more, you know, more power to fight with and stuff like that. And then they said, if anything, the cosplaying actually helps. So so I'm going to. So I am going to continue as, as planned. Where I've got one, I've got a couple of things Excuse me, but I'm repeating but my friends and I actually have something new that we're going to try at the con, which we're excited about.

Bryan: 36:09

Yeah, I don't know. I think I stand in solidarity mostly because for a while I was Agma, which, for people who don't know, is the operatic union and ballet dancers.

Jacob: 36:18

And then, I was equity.

Bryan: 36:19

Oh, I know Right, and so like because those are sister unions to SAG like I'm just like always when the union strikes, I'm like, fine done, I don't care that I'm sitting in this hotel in Burbank not being on a TV show. Like I will go home, glad that I got to experience something.

Jacob: 36:38

Exactly.

Bryan: 36:39

It's an interesting time that we're living in.

Jacob: 36:42

Yeah, exactly.

Bryan: 36:44

Back to the topic at hand, because I could geek out all day about like you know Marvel and. Tv and whatnot. Before we like wrap up the episode, I have one final question for you and then the opportunity for you to ask me a question. So the final question I have for you is when you're looking at schools, what can like teachers, parents, administrators do to help make them more inclusive for LGBTQ?

Jacob: 37:16

I think the biggest thing that they can do is, well, number one is, you know, create some sort of club or space for those kids to go to. So, number one, like you know, so, if you're, if they have, like, we have a unity club. It's called at my school, you know, like we talked about we both had Grace Street Alliance, like something like that, right off the bat, is already going to make teachers and, you know, students feel, you know, way, way more comfortable and the parents of the, you know, kids with. You know, lgbtq, you know, because we have, because sometimes we have parents that come in. You know very, you know, very, firm, you know, and very assertive about, like, you know, how their child identifies. And what's interesting is, you know, some of my colleagues are just like they're like very confused, Like, wow, they're so, they're so intense. I was like, well, I was like you don't know what happened in the past. Maybe they had teachers that were not very accepting and ones that weren't really, you know, weren't using the right pronouns and weren't doing the right thing. I was like, so, if they come off as intense, you know, I understand that and, granted, you know, I myself have said to some of my fellow teachers, because I feel like sometimes teachers wouldn't ask me you know the non LGBTQ ones they would come to me with stuff like that. They're like they'd be like Jake, am I doing the right thing? Am I saying the right thing? I'm trying to be you know, whatever and stuff, and I'd even said to them sometimes I've been like, yes, you're doing everything, and I've had to whisper like that parent is a little, a little too much, you know. So you know, and I get it to a certain extent, but at the same time I always say, like I I have a brother who is nonverbal, autistic, you know, and so I always say I was like you can 1000% advocate for your kid, but you can do your advocating and still be a nice person. And there's unfortunate, there's unfortunately a lot of parents these days that completely cross that line and basically, you know, treat their teachers like, you know, a servant. But back to what they can do to create that. Obviously, having that space, you know like you know, obviously, like you know, having anything hung, you know, saying, like you know, that everybody is welcome, all of that stuff helps, you know, because there those are little subtle things that we think you know, don't really matter as much, but when the kids do see those it really does make, you know, an impact. You know, and I had, I actually had a student once who in my like you know, in my email signature they actually email me and said it makes me really happy that I see your pronouns in your email signature because you know I identify with you, know they them pronouns and some people don't understand it. So thank you for doing that. So just little, I would say, just little subtle things like that to you know, to really help everybody feel welcome, I think is the best that you can do. And then if something happens, where something goes wrong, you know whether a kid is, you know, being bullied or an issue arises, I think the biggest thing that everybody can do is is listen, you know, and especially when it's a you know, especially when it's, you know technically, you know it's a community that you might not, you know, identify with. You know it's like, for example, like whenever something comes to you know, an issue, if somebody is, you know, trans, you know I I always listen, as you know, best as I can, because it's like I can't. You know I'm a cisgender male, I can't speak for how a trans person feels or what they've gone through. You know, I had, or I had, a woman once we were in a Zoom PD together and it was just me. Then they sent us into breakout groups and it was just me and her, you know, and she's, and she's a black woman, and they literally, just you know, talked all about, like you know, you know, people of color and how they're represented in the classroom and stuff. And they were like so go into breakout rooms and discuss and her and I are just sitting here there on the Zoom for like a second looking at each other. And I just looked or I said talk like I. What am I going to say? You know, that's not, that's not my experiences, those are yours, so let's hear it, you know. So I think listening is really important as well.

Bryan: 41:16

Absolutely. I think I always find those, those PDs, to be a little bit frustrating because of the breakout aspect of it. They're like here are a bunch of people you don't know, we're going to lay some stuff that's on you, that's relatively heavy, and then now go talk about it with people.

Jacob: 41:33

Exactly, and that's another thing. Sorry, if I'm going to add one more thing that's another thing that they need to change is stop leading these PDs that make us where they talk to us like we're also 12, knock it off. It's the worst, you know. It's so condescending, like I don't want to do an icebreaker with all of my coworkers we all know each other Like we're not 12. Stop it.

Bryan: 41:57

Absolutely. And the other thing is like, at bare minimum, you have to have a bachelor's degree and most teachers have a master's. So it's like let us be the experts and talk to us like we're experts, as opposed to like we're just fresh, you know fresh face, and we have no idea what's going on. When I started teaching, I had spent years doing like live entertainment production. So when I started teaching because I looked younger than I am right people were like this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't know what he's doing. And I'm like look, I've had 10, 15 years of corporate experience that makes up for the fact that I haven't been in the classroom or I didn't go through a teacher training program at a university. It's different, but like it doesn't mean that I'm fresh and green and I don't know.

Jacob: 42:55

No, and any teacher will tell you. It's like you know, 90% of what they learned about being a teacher is when they actually did it and they say, ok, maybe 10% of what I learned in college helped, but like nothing helped until I actually started teaching. Student teaching, yep.

Bryan: 43:09

And it's funny because even student teaching doesn't prepare you to do it on your own. Like you always have someone there that's helping you out, who's already built the rapport with the student, who's already built the structures there, but when you have to go do all of that by yourself, it's a whole other ball game.

Jacob: 43:25

Correct, yes, and especially if you're like student teaching with somebody who is, you know, a very seasoned and veteran teacher, like they've got their stuff on lock and those kids don't step a toenail out of line. Like both, like we had to, I had to do two different because we're pre-K to 12 certified. They had us do eight weeks in one school and eight weeks in another. And so I had, you know, a K to five school where the guy had been at it 25 years and it was boom, boom, boom. And then I had another woman who was a choir director and she had, like you know, like you know, five different choirs. Like her elite choir was a class during the school day. She'd been at it for 33 years. I'll be honest, I'm like I didn't do much, you know. It's like I was there, you know, and I did some time where I taught some things.

Bryan: 44:09

But yeah, it's almost like going in as a guest conductor, as opposed to like having to do a lot of work because they've I mean respectfully, they have already done.

Jacob: 44:22

Correct, oh, 100%, yeah, exactly. And those schools also. They were both two very white, very rich school districts. So, and then I got to my first job in the urban district and I was like, oh okay, completely different, completely different. Yeah, it was good, though you know it's like my, I always joked with my first job I had. I was like, well, I survived that. Now I can, now I can do most things, because I was like getting thrown to the wind.

Bryan: 44:50

All right, so we're going to wrap things up, and this time you get to ask me a question, or a couple of questions, depending on if it dovetails. So yeah would you like to know?

Jacob: 45:02

Totally awesome. So I forget. So you have, I forget. How many kids do you have? I have four kids.

Bryan: 45:07

They range in age from nine to 20.

Jacob: 45:10

Okay.

Bryan: 45:11

So we adopted the three older kids. They're all siblings. We adopted them in 2013. And then the youngest was born in 2014 and we adopted her at birth. So it's been a wild ride.

Jacob: 45:26

Right, yeah. So my question for that is is because I always see, you know, I always like I am done teaching at the end of the day and I just wanted to like completely disassociate, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I would be driving home and a couple of times I'd say like thank God, I don't have my own kids, because I'm just, I am just fried. So I would say to you it's like you know, that's what I would ask you. It's like you know what is the. You know maybe, like what are some of the challenge and what is like you know the big, maybe the biggest challenge. Or just you know and there also could be rewarding things too Like maybe like you know the positives and you know, you know challenges with being both a teacher and a parent, you know.

Bryan: 46:04

So some of the things that I think are positives is that for a while, I was teaching at the same school in the same school district as my kids, and so, like one of the positives was like I had a lot of eyes on my children right, Like even when students were watching out for my kids, which I love. I think that that's really fun and cool. I also got to see them a lot more when I was working in corporate entertainment, like I would be gone for eight to 17 hours of the day and I wouldn't be able to see them. But because I'm a teacher, I have basically the same schedule as my kids, with the exception of if I'm in rehearsals for something, and I've been very good about scheduling my rehearsals, since I'm teaching and I get to make the schedule that I'm done at six and I'm home for dinner, and so it's been a lot better for me because I get to see my kids more and I get to interact with them more and, like their teachers know me and even though I don't work in the district anymore, like all of those people are still connected to me and so like I get a lot of positive feedback from them and my kids have a lot of friends who are kids of teachers, because we're all connected, and so those are some of the positive things. I think that what is really hard, especially as an elective teacher, is that you do have those days where, like I work at high schools, the teenagers just really pissed me off. I have three teenagers at home and I just got like you know, I wanted to disassociate, I wanted to just sit on my phone all night and you can't do that. You have to be there for the kids, and so it's hard to have to push through that. But then there were some days where it's just like I'm going to go home and I'm going to eat dinner and I'm going to go to bed and you also have to be kind of like cognizant of what you need personally, because if you can't, take care of yourself, then you won't be able to take care of your own children, and then you won't be able to take care of your students. So it's got its ups and downs and, like I love being a parent, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I think that we didn't know what we were going to expect. We went from zero kids to three kids, and those kids had schedules right, because they were five, six and nine. So they were in school and they had, you know, they were pre potty trained, you know all the things. But then right baby a year later, when we adopted the baby and it was like a whole other, like this person cannot do anything right. And now she's nine and I'm like go back. Go back a little bit Like why are you doing all this stuff on your own? What's happening?

Jacob: 48:43

Right, because they, because it happened, so it happened so fast.

Bryan: 48:48

Yeah, she's visiting family right now and she sent me like a selfie the other day and I was like did you grow? Are you older? Like you've only been gone a couple weeks visiting family.

Jacob: 49:01

Right.

Bryan: 49:03

So it's, it's a wild ride. I wouldn't trade it. I think that if people are considering having kids, they should absolutely Right. I think that it's worthwhile for heterosexuals as well as queer couples to like find parenting classes because they exist and like if you go through the adoption process, you have to go through parenting classes. And I think that it's worthwhile because, even if you end up pregnant accidentally as a heterosexual couple like right you can get resources to kind of help ease the process on what what it means to be a parent. And some of those things in the parenting classes are how I manage classroom management, because it's it's like being stern being stern versus being mean and like how do you set ground, rules and boundaries and all this stuff and being consistent, and these are all things that are like textbook, classroom management.

Jacob: 50:05

Nice.

Bryan: 50:06

So yeah, good question.

Jacob: 50:09

Did any of? Did any of your follow up question any of your theatrical interests trickle down to your kids or not so much?

Bryan: 50:17

My sons both did technical theater for a little bit, okay, so they did the technical side. My daughter was in marching band for a little bit and I was in marching band as a kid. I was a marching band, choir band, like theater geek. I did all the things. And then my youngest is cheerleader and gymnast. So it's performative but it's not the same kind of performance. She won chip in Beauty, in the Beast Junior. But I know she's like she has it in her head that she has stage right, so she can't do it again. That's like you are six, like you'll grow out of it it will be fine, exactly.

Jacob: 50:59

Well, I know I have a. I have a daughter Sorry, I don't my friend as a daughter who's a gymnast. So I know that that's a. I know that they can, that can be an. I know that that can be a very expensive and grueling schedule. So my hat goes, my hat goes off to you there. My, my friend Brianna, she literally got her admin degree so she could get like the $7000 increase. She was like I need it, I need for gymnastics. Yeah, she literally said she was like I need that increase. She's like gymnastics doesn't pay itself.

Bryan: 51:31

No, it's like she's like she's like to get this and pay increase to pay for my kids activities Exactly.

Jacob: 51:37

Seriously. She said she was like if you have a daughter and she says I want to do gymnastics, just say no, you don't honey, no, you don't show show. She was like show like 10 videos of them falling and just scare her was what she said.

Bryan: 51:49

It's funny because my daughter wanted to do gymnastics and then we did cheer and she loves cheer and then now she's doing gymnastics again. I was like both of them are very expensive, so let's choose one and decide not both. Not both, please, right, you want to cheer and gymnastics, then can you do gymnastics now and then like do cheer in middle school and high school, like there are options.

Jacob: 52:16

Right, right, hey. At least it's not dance. That's even worse.

Bryan: 52:20

That's true, though I'm a past life dancer, so I'd be all for it and she's like, do you remember? That one time I took ballet class. I was like, yeah, you were for. Like how do you remember that one time you took a ballet class?

Jacob: 52:34

I love it.

Bryan: 52:34

Yeah, all right. Well, it's been so great talking with you. I hope you have a great rest of your day and thank you everyone for tuning into this episode. Bye. Thank you for joining us on this episode of teaching while queer. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, make sure to subscribe. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, leave a review, and that would help out tremendously. You can also support the podcast by going to www dot teaching while queer dot com and hit support the show. Thanks so much and have a great day.