Cultivating Compassion: A Conversation with Annabel Flemate

Bryan (he/they): 0:27

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for educational 2SLGBTQIA+ professionals to share their experiences in academia. Hi, I'm your host, Bryan Stanton, a theater pedagogue and educator in New York City, and my goal is to share stories from around the world from 2SLGBTQIA+ educators. I hope you enjoy Teaching While Queer. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, Bryan Stanton, and I'm so excited today to have Annabell Flemate. Is that correct or did I?

Annabell (she/they): 1:04

say your name incorrectly. Hi, it's Flemate, but that is quite alright, I get that a lot.

Bryan (he/they): 1:10

I'm sure it's so funny because I have a degree in opera performance so I like learned how to say a lot of different languages. So my, my instinct is always to go towards pronouncing it in a different language. And then so many years in Texas kind of beat that out of me, so I gotta get back to the groove.

Annabell (she/they): 1:28

Oh yeah, okay, yeah, no worries, no worries, that happens, that happens.

Bryan (he/they): 1:32

Awesome, I'm so glad you're here. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Annabell (she/they): 1:37

Alrighty, so I am. My name is Annabelle, I go by Xie-Ve and I am a TK to kindergarten teacher. I do assist in different classes as well, so I do also help out with sign language and or Spanish and, to be honest, sign language is one of my big passions, you know, and that's a lot of the reason why I teach just to create a welcoming and overall big community environment for all students.

Bryan (he/they): 2:07

I love that so much. I have a huge passion for sign language but like not enough time to learn it. It's been on my bucket list of things to learn for I swear a decade and I'll start a class and then I'll get overwhelmed with other things going on in my life and then I just, you know, it's something I want to pick up one day, because I've just been so fascinated with it and I, as an artist, I just love how expressive the language is. Oh, yes, 100%.

Annabell (she/they): 2:37

There's like seven different key reasons why, like, sign language is the language and stuff and just the facial expressions alone. You know, like wow, you don't have to say anything, but I can totally tell that. You just read me. I could tell you know, absolutely like.

Bryan (he/they): 2:52

It's so funny because, as an acting teacher, I talk a lot about how we communicate more through our nonverbal communication, what we do with our body, what we do with our face. When you look at the deaf community, you can see that so clearly and it's just one of those things that I love. It's a great, it's a great resource, I think, for you know, anybody who wants to, to learn about what your face gives away, because I have that conversation, I swear, almost weekly with my daughter, like I don't know that what you said matches what your face is trying to tell me. So, just like, maybe think about how that looks, that's too funny, oh my god. Awesome, so you're a pre-K tk teacher, so let's start by taking a journey back in time and talk about what your experience was like as a queer student.

Annabell (she/they): 3:49

Sure, to be honest, at first I had no idea what was going on. I just knew I was different, but I just didn't know how or in what way. But growing up, I owe seriously everything to my teachers. Without any of my teachers I wouldn't be the person that I am today. I truly owe everything to them. You know they helped me. They saw me when I was struggling, even at a young age. You know they they really sought me out and they said, hey, I, I'm gonna help you. You know I struggled too, like speaking English as well. Um, so I spoke a lot of Spanglish in first grade and stuff like that. So it was a bit challenging and you know I did get held back and I felt, you know, very bad about it. You know, in a shame. But you know, looking back at it, I know that my teachers were making the right calls and just wanting me to succeed. So that's ultimately also why I became a teacher was because they helped me at some of my lowest and most important points in life, and just I owe so much to teachers.

Bryan (he/they): 4:56

So yay, all teachers yay, teacher, I love it. I especially love your conversation with regard to the fact that, like you, were an English language learner, and how that's an added stress just to normal school day oh yes, 100%.

Annabell (she/they): 5:12

I'll be like oh my gosh, how do I say, how do I say this word? I don't know. So I'll say it in Spanish. And you know, luckily I did have a really good support system. You know my parents as well. You know they helped as much as they could, but uh, really, teachers, awesome swear.

Bryan (he/they): 5:27

I love that. One of the things that I've done over the years is just kind of rushing up my skills on how I can support English language learners because, as I've gone through different schools, there are different populations, so it's not enough to say like, oh, I learned Spanish, so I can help the English language learners. No, it's like at my last school I swear that I believe that they said there were 32 languages being spoken on the campus, and so it's like you just have to be comfortable knowing what resources to use so that you can better help all of your students truly, truly.

Annabell (she/they): 6:03

That is exactly. Also one of the reasons why I did sign language as well is because I noticed, especially with the pandemic as well, I noticed a lot of the kids that I've been encountering, you know, coming into my class they're having a little bit of like speech delay or speech issues, which is, you know, very normal especially at this age. But I just feel like, you know, someone should really do a study. Someone I don't know who, but someone should definitely do a study on that. Um, you know, I've noticed that they're able to pick up sign language quicker and it just it's something that is really it's much easier for them to absorb. You know, a lot of nonverbal cues, things like that really helps. So that's also a big reason why I teach sign language in my classroom. It's so beneficial.

Bryan (he/they): 6:49

I wish everybody could learn it seriously absolutely and honestly, it's a such a great thing for, like parents, because your toddler wants to be able to communicate with you, but they might not know, like they don't have the vocabulary yet. So, like I remember signing with my daughter and speaking English, and sometimes speaking Spanish, because I learned, like if you throw little nuggets at people, especially when it comes to language, when they're younger, that it creates more of an adaptable brain that allows you to learn language as you grow older and so this is very true. I was sitting there going I'm gonna speak to you in French, I'm gonna speak to you in Spanish, and we learned to count in four different languages and we learned to count in sign language and she knew how to say more and food and all of these things to try to communicate, just like from the toddler age. So it's such a cool thing that you're doing, because you're really providing them with this ability to just communicate, and I think that's probably the most frustrating part about toddlerhood and the most frustrating part about parenting a toddler yes, 100, 100, I agree awesome. So what has your journey been? Like you, you go by she, they pronouns, so how did you kind of come into your identity?

Annabell (she/they): 8:07

oh, that's a good question. Um, the way that I kind of came into my identity is I I knew, going into it, that I was something. I didn't know what I was exactly. Uh, but moving, uh, honestly, it all started happening when I moved. I moved from Los Angeles over to the Bay Area and that's kind of when I started to discover a little bit of my footing. So at first, uh, like growing up as a kid, I thought like, oh, like I shouldn't be thinking of people like that or anything like that, or having feelings for the same sex or things like that. But once I moved to the Bay I was like this is what I was, this is what I was feeling. I understand now, you know, I think also just having a community and being seen in the community and having that there and feeling safe, I think is a huge key and kind of just being in the community and having a good support system out here Really helped me find who, who I am and my true authentic self. So I always tell everyone, you know, if you feel you're nerdy, if you feel like you're just super excited person or things like that, you know, just be yourself. You know, at the end of the day, be your authentic, true self. Because if you're not gonna be your true, authentic self, it only at the end is gonna really hurt you and what you really want and Need in your life. So that's even what I tell, tell my kids. You know One of the kids doesn't want to play this, but everybody else is doing it. You know I'm just like why don't you go do what you want to do? You know that is totally fine, you don't have to play tag, you could read a book. You know things like that, you know. So just being your true, authentic self, and that even just that stems all the way definitely from like childhood and things like that. So I say, you know, encourage your children if they, if they really want to learn about sign language, or if they really want to wear like a dress, if they really want to Color their hair purple. You know of course you can get like the ones that come off. You know can't be permanent. But you know, do things like that. You know they're kids. They need all of this Warmth and love and acceptance, because if you don't give that to them now, I know down the line in the future, those Big things are going to impact them in a way that you will never even know. I'm sorry, I'm really just passionate about.

Bryan (he/they): 10:44

No, I understand entirely, because I've had situations pop up in my own life where I didn't realize how impactful certain things were until I was an adult and yes my behaviors on certain things, like I've been afraid of public displays of affection and like PDA forever, and it stems from like two things, right, because there's this like idea of masculinity, where masculinity is saying that like Public displays of affection are feminine and bad, and then also like being a queer person like you have the potential of being like hurt and like and just me recalling comments that people made when I was younger about like other, queer people and how it was a negative thing and I didn't realize how much I took of that into myself until I was experiencing that. Until I was experiencing things and going like why can't I hold my husband's hand in public? Why?

Annabell (she/they): 11:40

do I have such?

Bryan (he/they): 11:40

a problem with this. So really, like parents out there, we got to be cautious about the things that we say and how we respond, because you're absolutely correct, we can create a lifelong impact without even realizing that, like some offhanded thing we said 100%.

Annabell (she/they): 11:58

So I'm sorry I have a quick story, because you said that Growing up in like a Latino household and stuff, you know a big thing that like just even talking about, like food or things like that, even just the slightest little comments that you may think are funny, and stuff that will impact your child so much they will remember that I assure you 1000%. So just you know, be kind to your kids, you know, even if you're like joking around or you're going to say like oh, you're going to get another one, or whatever, let them. They're growing kids. They need the energy anyways, you know. So just be mindful, I guess is what I would say.

Bryan (he/they): 12:37

Yeah, I think there's something to be said. I don't know where I read this, but about basically like your kids self-talk comes from what you say to them. And so that negative self-talk of like, oh, I'm fat, I'm ugly, I'm this, that and the other comes from things that they've been told, and then they just kind of internalize that. So, yeah, we've got to be cautious and very careful about how we refer To ourselves to our bodies, everything, really, yes. Also like I just feel like in the modern society, parents, grandparents, like aunts and uncles like maybe just don't talk about people's bodies anymore. Like you just get off of that. Like you don't need to comment on my body, you don't need to comment on me. It's completely inappropriate.

Annabell (she/they): 13:28

The two things sometimes that I get are like, oh, how are you doing? Do you have a boyfriend? Yet I'm like, oh my gosh, here we go again.

Bryan (he/they): 13:36

Yeah, I have distinct memories of really hating going to the orthodontist, because every time I went in there. He would ask if I had a girlfriend, and I'm like, oh, I hate being here. I really hate it. And it's not just because you're my dentist, it's because you're asking these kind of relatively intrusive questions.

Annabell (she/they): 13:54

Exactly, and you're like I think there might be a cavity dude, I don't know.

Bryan (he/they): 14:00

Can we do the job at hand, please? Yeah, so you work in TK, pre-k age, which is like for those folks who are maybe unfamiliar. It's like anywhere ranging from like 3 to 5 range. About? Yep. Yep, that's correct, and that's a very hard area right now with all the controversy happening in the. United States.

Annabell (she/they): 14:27

Have you ever had to deal with like anti queer behavior because you're working with young children, so actually, I'm very thankful that I have not had to encounter any situation like that yet, but I very am well equipped and prepared for that. Inside my classroom also, it's not a secret. Everyone in the community there knows that I'm gay and the directors have my back, you know like. So if anything, any kind of issue I face, you know, I would just go directly to them, same with the teachers. I'm very open with my sexuality and who I am as a person. So even the parents, which I was very surprised and very happy and proud of these sets of parents, because they asked me on the first day they're like, oh, like, what are your pronouns? And that was the first time in my entire years of teaching, which is only 7, but that someone has asked me that and I had a smile that lit up the room because no one has ever done that or even asked, and I just really value and appreciate that. And also, in my classroom I have a lot of first conversation books as well. I have first conversation books about gender, about race, about bodies, different things, because it's so important and vital to incorporate this to our children so they know and they're prepared for when they get older, as well as just having like diverse books, you know, having like some in Spanish, some in English, some in Mandarin, you know, the more the better. It's not going to harm them, it's not.

Bryan (he/they): 16:09

Absolutely, and it's interesting because one of my previous guests their episode actually will be airing a couple weeks right after we have this interview. But they run queer kids stuff on YouTube and Instagram and wrote a book about parenting and teaching like gender and sexual orientation and identity and what not, and that's like kids of all ages and they get constantly bombarded by people just because of the fact that they're willing to have a conversation with young people in an age appropriate way and it's not like you know we're having conversations about sex a 3 year old. We're having conversations about relationships. We're having conversations about knowing yourself.

Annabell (she/they): 16:57

And we're having conversations about consent as well like such vital important things and I know it's baffling to me how someone who wants to teach and help and change the world and make it a better place is getting so much backlash for something that is actually going to help so many children and it's going to help them to have a future too. So to that person keep doing what you're doing and don't stop. You know haters going to hate, but whatever, absolutely no, you're good, I'm sure that they will appreciate that.

Bryan (he/they): 17:32

I will let them know for sure. So you mentioned that you have several like first conversation books what is the? First conversation book look like.

Annabell (she/they): 17:43

I didn't bring it today but it's published by Penguin House and I do have the name of the author. I only have one of the authors, but there's three but it's by Megan Madison and it's a Pinguish Publishing House book and it just talks about like about how we love each other in general. It talks about how you love your mom and dad and how other people love different people and genders, and that's okay, you know it shows in the book. It I like this book is specifically because of the pictures that they incorporate. You know they have people of different races and different genders and different like. They even have some with children who are wearing like dresses that are please, and that's totally fine. You know, imagination play all that stuff so vital and so important and I mean I recommend if any new parents or parents are watching this or listening to this highly recommend the first conversation books. Those help you clear out so many difficult questions that parents might have in the future. What I like about this book is it gives you a lot of topics in the back from a doctor as well, who has the better language than me to describe certain methods and ways of teaching about gay bisexuality and stuff like that. I think that's so helpful, because that was not there when I was a kid at all.

Bryan (he/they): 19:17

I was just don't know what's going on. Yeah, so then we're left with no vocabulary. I love that there's this vocabulary being built for young people to be able to figure out who they are, yes, truly. I love that I know. About a year ago or so, a friend shared a TikTok with me. That was someone reading the book my shadow is purple, which is another picture book that talks about a non-binary identity, but it uses shadows as the way to talk about it I thought it was super cool, because it's that's very clever, I like that Objective, but it showed this person's shadow transforming into more feminine and then it transformed into do more masculine things and it likes to do both things and it doesn't have to have-.

Annabell (she/they): 20:12

Oh my gosh, I love that A specific blue or pink.

Bryan (he/they): 20:15

it's purple, oh my gosh. And so I loved seeing how creative young Well writers are getting for young kids.

Annabell (she/they): 20:28

Oh yes, it's, amazing.

Bryan (he/they): 20:30

Everybody wants well, not everybody, but a lot of people think it's a hard conversation to have, but really you can break anything down into easy, manageable chunks for kids.

Annabell (she/they): 20:43

And nine times out of ten. What the child will say when you get the answer is oh, okay, and go about three days and it's more like the adult is making it more of a bigger deal than the child.

Bryan (he/they): 20:56

You know, absolutely, absolutely. It's funny because when I hear people who are like, well, I would want to have this conversation with my kid when it's appropriate for their age, and I'm just sitting there, like my kid probably just went back to like tying their shoes or whatever, like the conversation was over.

Annabell (she/they): 21:12

Yeah, it's done now.

Bryan (he/they): 21:14

Everybody wants to make it like a huge deal. I talk about that all the time when it comes to pronouns too Like I love that somebody asks you your pronouns, because I think a lot of people forget that teachers are humans yeah, truly, and that like we need to be cared for too, and so I love that someone went out of the way, this group of parents went out of their way to ask you what your pronouns are. But like I would say that there's so many people who think like the pronoun conversation is such a huge conversation. I'm like it's it's one question one day of the school year. Why are we making it such a big deal, and most of the time it's an optional question? Truly, it's wild to me how it's turned into such a big deal when it's literally like this question takes 3.5 seconds out of my entire school year. So maybe we just calm down and not worry about it so much. Truly.

Annabell (she/they): 22:11

I'm just like, okay, let's go back to what we're here for the work of your child or what's going on here? Yeah, it is.

Bryan (he/they): 22:20

But like I said.

Annabell (she/they): 22:20

I have been fortunately very blessed with like a really good community. I haven't faced any kind of issues like that and knock on wood, hopefully it won't, but if I do, I'm ready. I got my cue cards.

Bryan (he/they): 22:33

About your cue cards. Okay, so just a question. Like you've prepared for this, what are some things that you might say to somebody? This might help somebody else who's in this situation.

Annabell (she/they): 22:42

Well, actually. So it's funny I would give them one of my first conversation books and sit then down. And because I mean, if they're going to question that, then they do need a little bit of education, and you know who better to do it than me, teacher Annabelle with all the first conversation books. So I would sit them down and I would have a conversation with them and just be like hey, this is how it how I am being represented in this book, this is who I am, this is how I feel, or things like that. And if they have a problem, I would be like you know, I understand that you have big, really big, strong feelings and emotions about this, but I assure you that, even though my gender or whatever is an issue, I have all the qualifications inside my resume to show otherwise. And just because I go by sheet, they doesn't mean that I am any lesser than someone who goes by a misdoror and misses or anything like that. Because do they know sign language in German and Spanish? Can they do that? Like, how dare you? You know, well, you know, and so on and so forth. If it turns into a heated battle, then I'll be like we'll go to the director, but I mean that it's true. It's just, you know, I will educate you, I will sit you down if I have to, if the parents and honestly I have even talked to my director if parents do have an issue or want to know more like, I would be more than happy to host like a, like an out night at my school and just kind of just give them a little bit of background information on like what these things mean and why we need to be respectful of it and just be kind and be nice human beings. You know it's not that hard everybody.

Bryan (he/they): 24:33

Really don't understand why that's such a hard concept, like we just need to be nice human beings, cause I feel like it's in the playbook, as a parent, that you teach your kids to be nice and then it just I don't know somewhere, gets thrown out the window where you know adults are allowed to be mean, but kids have to be nice. Exactly so it's such an interesting double standard because I feel like, if you look at it from a religious aspect, every major religion on this planet has some sort of like treat people the way you want to be treated.

Annabell (she/they): 25:08

No.

Bryan (he/they): 25:10

Like it's literally called the golden rule for a reason and it exists like unilaterally.

Annabell (she/they): 25:16

Yes, it really is funny, you know, I just think it's ironic. You know, like they talk about like the casting of, like the first stone, and things like that, and I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, look at yourself in the big right now.

Bryan (he/they): 25:30

You know honestly, it's like who's throwing the stones. Did you see where that stone came from? Because it did not come from me it's wild. So you talked a lot already about authenticity. What are some things that you might tell a brand new teacher or administrator or someone who's jumping into education for the first time?

Annabell (she/they): 25:56

who's?

Bryan (he/they): 25:57

concerned about being authentic or whether or not they should be authentic in the academic setting.

Annabell (she/they): 26:03

So what I would recommend is, when you go to your first day or something like that, go talk, talk to your director, be open and honest about look, this is my concern, or this is what I'm concerned about. I really need like assistance if this comes about, you know, which I am 100% like like, speak up, speak your mind and let it be known, because I I would really hate to see someone get hurt by not speaking up for something that they need. I think being there and having a supportive team and just reaching out to other teachers and letting them know I think would help the process a lot, because a lot of my teachers, like I said, even on hard days, I think they just really get you through. And even my teachers will ask me like, oh, how was Pride this year? Things like that. And it's just, it's nice to have that environment as well of being your true, authentic self at work too, you know.

Bryan (he/they): 27:11

Absolutely. I would echo that and also just say that there's no shame in asking that question during the interview as well, Like how would? You handle this situation Because, ultimately, we need to make sure we're in a safe environment where we can be authentic. There's nothing worse, I think, than having to live a lie 100%. And so I just think that, whether it's your first day working or whether it is at the job interview, I had a job interview today for a university and I was like I'm coming in pink hair and nose ring and nail polish and I wore a long button-up shirt but it had stars all over it and I was like here. I am Like you're getting the full me, because if I don't feel comfortable in a room with you at this interview, I don't know that I'm going to feel comfortable working for you.

Annabell (she/they): 28:06

Exactly that's true. Like I remember, when I showed up for my interview, I showed up like in a polka dot rainbow dress. I was ready and roaring to go. You know, I think that's very important, especially for the kids too for the kids to see that you're being your true self. Children pick up on so many things. They pick up on your energy, they pick up on your body language, Everything. You may think, just because they're tiny and small, that they may not be that observant, but they are 1000% observant and pick up things really quick.

Bryan (he/they): 28:40

So I've seen that like in my own life as a parent. I've seen that in the classroom. It's just so common. Kids are picking up on. Like you raised your eyebrows a moment ago, what were you thinking?

Annabell (she/they): 28:55

Yeah, you're like, what in the world Like?

Bryan (he/they): 28:58

what I raised my eyebrows and this goes back to our conversation about the facial expressions Like I didn't even know. I was sending a signal right now. I was just like in my thoughts. So If we were talking to, if we can make like a A small legislation or we can make an initiative that is going to help Educational communities make inclusive practices for 2 s, lgbtq plus students and be a support for them. What would you like to see? What do you think that educational institutions could do?

Annabell (she/they): 29:42

They could do so much. But I mean one of the, I think one. I mean I know it's a big thing, this bathroom situation, but I mean honestly, the bathrooms come on, let's just make them all gender neutral. Come on, just just. I mean honestly, that would be like the big first step to be on because I know it's going to start. Start there.

Bryan (he/they): 30:02

Yeah, I went to a Broadway show and the ushers are literally like we have gender neutral bathrooms, go wherever you want to go, just be safe. Like, and they've got attendance working in there handing out paper towels and whatnot. You know, and it's like, yeah, there's a stall there. And it's so wild to me because again, there's some hypocrisy with with this kind of thing, because I recall from a school that my daughter attended that there was this huge controversy over a trans student using a bathroom and an elementary school and it was because other kids looked through the cracks in the stall at this student going to the restroom and discovered that they were transgender and, oh wow, nobody thought maybe this child needs to respect other people's privacy. That's exactly what I was going to like we need to now debate whether or not this other child is allowed to even use the restroom for a while. That kid was like escorted to the bathroom and could be the only person in the restroom and it was like a huge deal. And I'm just sitting here going like Wow, she just wants to pee, like yeah.

Annabell (she/they): 31:15

And then you have to think like we, like you have to think you're taking time out of the another two other people's days To do all this extra work for something that can just be solved and we can all just use the freaking bathroom like oh man.

Bryan (he/they): 31:33

I feel like you know, get with an America like we have private restrooms like the stalls don't need to have a crack in it where you can see everything that's going on on the inside, like we all just benefit from from some more privacy.

Annabell (she/they): 31:47

Yes, truly.

Bryan (he/they): 31:49

So we've talked restrooms. What else would you like to see happen?

Annabell (she/they): 31:53

I would like to also stop banning all the books that should not be getting banned. Like what? That's nonsensical. I mean, there's so much, so many important vital books that are on that list that should be. At least everyone should own a copy of at least one of those books. Like literally leaves me speechless. Sometimes I'm just like what?

Bryan (he/they): 32:16

I'm baffled because some of the books on the list were like required reading when I was a child and I was like so you adults who had to read this book as a teenager, are now going like oh, this is inappropriate for my kid. Like what did it do? It's a book Like it's not going to come attack you with its. You know diversity.

Annabell (she/they): 32:41

Watch out. But also, aside from the books, I would also say if there could be like, because over at the school that I went to, in the Ohio school, they had they were called safe spaces and safe rooms so any student could go inside that room, talk freely, like about their sexuality, about themselves, things like that, with no judgment. I would love if, almost like all the schools would have a safe space, you know, and with a teacher who, I mean, is queer or identifying in the LGBTQ plus community, because truly that makes all the difference is having that one person sometimes truly, I agree and I also think that, like that, space can be for everybody.

Bryan (he/they): 33:28

So just because it says safe space and has a rainbow on. It doesn't mean that like somebody who's in their feels, who identifies as heterosexual, can't go in there and like have a moment, Like yeah, it really is for everybody. The signal is to the people who think that they're alone.

Annabell (she/they): 33:43

You know what I mean Exactly 100%, yeah, and I think that was really nice. Or like the Daystreet Alliance group as well, I think that's very important, you know, and letting like individuals join different sports if they want to be in a different sport, you know.

Bryan (he/they): 34:02

My son. It's funny because you know freshman and sophomore year of football, there was a girl playing football with them. Not an issue at all. As soon as she was going to jump up to JV or varsity, like it just stopped, like she hit a wall and wasn't allowed to advance on it and just like, really Like she was doing killer, and you know the freshman team and like the first year JV team and now she's getting better where she'll actually like play on the better JV team or play on the varsity team and you're like, no, she can't play Absolutely.

Annabell (she/they): 34:35

Yeah, that's unlike. Hold on, are we? Aren't we trying to win?

Bryan (he/they): 34:40

Are you trying to get the points on the board? It's so funny in Texas, like in Texas, volleyball is a feminine sport and I grew up where it's like there was boys, volleyball and girls, volleyball, boys, water polo and girls. What water polo? Like there were boys and girls, pretty much everything except for football. And then softball became you know, the equivalent of baseball, which is also mind boggling to me because I think girls can play baseball. I've seen girls play baseball yeah, with girls, like there's no reason that they can't continue to play baseball 100%.

Annabell (she/they): 35:13

I'm like why are you giving me this gigantic yellow fricking softball to play right now? The worst.

Bryan (he/they): 35:21

Yeah, I hate those balls. They're also like way too lightweight Like it drives me nuts, because I've played baseball for so long that I'll try to go throw it, and then it's like way off kilter, because it's a different weight and it's a different size and and it's just to me like I have played baseball with girls. So it seems so weird that all of a sudden they hit high school and they have to stop playing baseball and they have to play soft play, softball, yeah, like what why? And that's the thing is. It's like so much of what we do is gendered and it doesn't have to be.

Annabell (she/they): 35:56

It really doesn't. It really doesn't. If we could just grab that whole idea, just take it back, I totally would. But we're just gonna have to make a change, we're just gonna have to go back in time, or we're gonna have to go into the future. Exactly.

Bryan (he/they): 36:11

So we're putting out that we like to put things out on on an episode we put out research already, like someone needs to do research on communication and whatnot, so we'll put that out there into the world too, like we're gonna just change it. We're gonna change the world so that it is better for everyone.

Annabell (she/they): 36:32

It's funny.

Bryan (he/they): 36:32

One of my favorite musicals is an off-Broadway show. Like it never made it to Broadway and I don't think it needs to, but it's called Zana Don't and it's basically it's called a fairy tale musical and it's about a homosexual world. So this is pre a common understanding of like, non-binary identity, but they're in a homosexual world and these two people find themselves falling in love, but they are heterosexual, and so this person has magical powers and they can change the whole world to make it accepting of heterosexual people because you cannot use magic to change people, and I think that was beautiful. And then they change the world and literally everybody gay bashes him because he stays gay, while everybody else now is in some sort of heterosexual coupling and the only person who remembers the world as it was is the person who becomes his boyfriend, like the two gay people remember the world as it was, but it's my. It was so interesting. It's such an interesting commentary on like the idea that when you change the world to be accepting of heterosexual people, it becomes unacceptable to be queer, whereas when it was unacceptable to be heterosexual, like people weren't getting bashed per se, but you know it was just harder to be yourself in. So I think it's such an interesting commentary on just like how divided things are, like where it has to be this sort of that black or white and I feel like so much of the world is like it's technicolor. There's so many different things that we can do that are in between what we think is this or that.

Annabell (she/they): 38:25

I agree and also.

Bryan (he/they): 38:26

I don't believe in binaries period.

Annabell (she/they): 38:29

There, you go.

Bryan (he/they): 38:30

No, thank you.

Annabell (she/they): 38:32

Also, I'm definitely gonna have to check that out because I love musicals.

Bryan (he/they): 38:38

Yeah, it stars J Rodriguez from the original.

Annabell (she/they): 38:40

Queer.

Bryan (he/they): 38:41

Eye for the Straight Guy. So that was fun too, like a cute little nod and some of my favorite people who have went on to Broadway. So it's it's a super fun, it's super cute. It is not appropriate for, I think, under high school because they do because it's based in a high school and, for some reason, in the imagination world of high school and like media, high schoolers are a lot more sexually active than than not. Like whether it's film, television, musicals, like I'm just sitting there going like, hmm, I work with high schoolers and, gosh, I hope that the stuff isn't happening the way you're saying it is, because that would be weird.

Annabell (she/they): 39:25

That'd be like wows, right there.

Bryan (he/they): 39:27

Exactly excuse me All right. So before we wrap up, I'm gonna give you the opportunity to ask me a question, so I'm gonna go ahead and turn the mic over to you.

Annabell (she/they): 39:37

Okay, wow, geez man, all right, let me see you, I guess. My main question, unless somebody already asked this I don't think they did but why did you start this podcast?

Bryan (he/they): 39:51

Oh sure, this is an ever-evolving question, because the more I think about this question, the more like I find things in the better words. To say so, a couple years ago, a couple years ago, I had toyed with this idea and I talked to my husband about it. I was teacher of the year for my district. I was receiving some anti-queer kind of like comments and whatnot, and I didn't feel like I had a community to connect with, and so I started looking for podcasts, because I had recently gotten to podcasting and I like to listen to, like educational podcasts, you know, because teachers were workaholics. So you know, driving home, listening to how to be a better teacher, and and so I was looking for podcasts where, you know, there were queer teachers, and there were none. And so I said you know what, if one doesn't pop up in the next year, then I'm gonna create one. And then nothing popped up, and so I created one, and what I'm realizing now, because I've kind of had conversations with people where they've specifically my mom has been like I just wish you would just be quiet, like I'm so worried about she's worried about physical harm, and I totally understand that she's like I just wish you would be quiet. And I'm like here's the thing, though people are actively silencing queer teachers. Right now, when you go and you watch the news, it isn't the queer teachers you're hearing about, it's the people talking about them. So, literally, we don't have any power in the narrative, and so my goal with this is just to make sure we are never fully silenced, that there is always a space where we can raise our voice and say we are here and here are our stories, and so that's kind of how, like how my answers evolved is like the purpose and the meaning behind this podcast is, honestly, to provide a space where people can't tell us we don't exist, because the the biggest trouble that the society has right now for minorities is that, with, you know, white supremacy and capitalism playing out in patriarchy. Their biggest goal is to make you feel isolated and alone. So if you feel isolated and alone and you feel isolated alone and this person over here feels isolated and alone, and this person over here feels isolated and alone, that you're never gonna rise up and voice a loud enough opinion to matter. And so my goal is to just let people know to be like the rainbow flare in the sky that says we are here in education, working everywhere to support children.

Annabell (she/they): 42:31

Yeah, and being queer does not change the fact of exactly what you said that we are also the experts in the room everybody always likes to think that we're not and I'm just like, uh, excuse me, wait, I'm the one that went to school for this. Uh, I don't, I don't know where, where you're coming at me for. But it's true, and I think a lot of parents sometimes, when they find out, like if their teacher is queer, they think, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. Blah, blah, blah. But it's like so what? It's not affecting your daily life. I'm just the teacher, I'm just trying to help your kid succeed in life and become a great human being.

Bryan (he/they): 43:09

That's the thing that gets me is I uh, my nine-year-old's word of the week or month is audacity, which I love. She's like the audacity of that look, you just gave me um and. But I just sit here going like the audacity of parents to be treating teachers the way that they are, when my parents wouldn't want to have a conversation unless it was required, like if, unless there was a true injustice happening, they would be having a conversation with me, not with my teacher. And it's so funny to me now because I think that the immediate response is like what did your teacher do?

Annabell (she/they): 43:54

truly, it really is, and I'm like whoa what? What did I do?

Bryan (he/they): 43:58

like you like no you know, I'm the adult in the room right like, yeah, I yeah, I definitely had that before too, so I'm like yeah well, anabelle. Thank you so much for coming on the episode today. I've really enjoyed it.

Annabell (she/they): 44:16

Anabelle flemate, because there you go get a winnow, because I love love, I love.

Bryan (he/they): 44:21

I'm learning spanish right now. I use like awesome. I'm a duo lingo person and so I just like practice it every day. But my daughter was in dual language so we we talked to each other with only people in the house that are like no new each other that's great.

Annabell (she/they): 44:38

Practice is key. Don't stop that.

Bryan (he/they): 44:40

It's gonna help her yeah, it's gonna help me too yeah, sometimes she's like you're saying that wrong dad, and so I just really enjoyed our time, and I love that you work with pre-k, because I think that the representation is so important and it needs to happen all across the realm. We shouldn't have to wait until high school to see a queer person living and thriving and to see queer, queer joy happening. So thank you for doing what you do well, thank you for doing what you do.

Annabell (she/they): 45:12

I you have inspired me just by this podcast, to be honest, and you are going to shape so many people's life spry and I I don't even think you realize, but thank you for having me on and I really appreciate it I love that.

Bryan (he/they): 45:25

Thank you so much, I appreciate it no problem.

Annabell (she/they): 45:27

Thank you all for listening have a great day everyone.

Bryan (he/they): 45:35

Thank you for joining us on this episode of teaching wild queer. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, make sure to subscribe. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, leave a review, and that would help out tremendously. You can also support the podcast by going to www. teachingwildqueer. com and hit support the show. Thanks so much and have a great day.