Embracing Identity: An Insight into Alicia Arballo's LGBTQ+ Advocacy in Education

Speaker 1: 0:27

Teaching While Queer is a podcast for 2S LGBTQ plus educational professionals to share their experiences in academia. Hi, I'm your host, brian Stanton, a theater pedagogy and educator in New York City, and my goal is to share stories from around the world from 2S LGBTQ plus educators. I hope you enjoy Teaching While Queer. Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Teaching While Queer. I am your host, brian Stanton, and I am excited to introduce you to Alicia Arbalo. Hi, alicia, how are you doing? Hi, good, how are you? I'm fantastic, thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Where you're from, what you teach, how you identify within the community?

Speaker 2: 1:16

Okay, well, I am. I live in Southern California, the Los Angeles area, to you know, be more exact Sherman Outs area. I've been in education for over 36 years, and really with the same district. I started in Los Angeles Unified School District and at that time my mother was an adult TA with another district and she had heard that I was kind of looking more for a career. I had done a lot of things I was a musician for a while and trying to raise a family and it wasn't panning out. My mother told me that if you passed the C-Best you could get into teaching, and so that's kind of what I did. I took the C-Best test, passed it. I had a friend who was a principal of an elementary school in the San Fernando Valley and he gave me some recommendations of principles I could go to and before I even got called by the district I went to those people, got an interview and they hired me right on the spot. So I think at that time if you were Latinx and you could breathe, it was pretty much you got hired just like that. So, and that really started it. I think one of the first things that I didn't really know if I liked the profession of teaching. But I was I've always been creative and pretty spontaneous, and so I think, with that in mind, there were a lot of things, a lot of opportunities that I opened myself up to within the profession. People liked my spontaneity, my creativity and they utilized that. I remember kind of one of the first schools that I was at, which is now a huge community school, we did this big TV math project and the Los Angeles Times came out and wrote a big article on it, and so there were things like that that I was involved in. That really kind of gave me momentum and I felt like I was relating to the kids. I didn't know if I even liked kids, but really, and I was raising three kids of my own, so that helped quite a bit. But as I progressed and I got into what, I started to find that I had a camaraderie with a lot of the teachers, especially being Latino. You know, there I don't remember seeing a Latin, latino teacher until I was in high school and I grew up in a predominant the Latin neighborhood, so to have those to be kind of a mentor in that regard was really really it really helped and I think I felt like, okay, I'm needed. And then I just really I had, you know, wonderful opportunities. There was a class of physics. I remember that the school couldn't hire a teacher or there had been a bunch of substitutes or teachers that had been in and out of the class and they just needed somebody to work with these kids. And I remember it was one of those classes where it was just like oh, this is, this is absolutely horrible, nobody can teach these kids. I threw out the book and we started kind of working on physics from kind of just a build your own level where they could see things and how things worked and we could talk about laws and dynamics. And those kids really became kind of some of my. They came to me years later and asked me if I could write letters of recommendation and stuff. So you know, there were opportunities like that, that where, in terms of education, I felt really led and it it was wonderful. And then, about 15 years into my teaching profession, I thought, wow, you know, I see a lot of older teachers get burned out. I wonder if there's something else I could do. And so I went, I got my masters in counseling at Cal Lutheran University and then at that time. Ab 1802 was just passed in the state of California to hire more counselors, and the school that I was working at, lawrence Middle School, hired me as a counselor again, just like that. So I've had these, I've been in the right place at the right time and those, those opportunities have really kind of fueled my access and the ability to kind of contribute to the educational environments that I was in.

Speaker 1: 7:12

I really enjoy that, and what I particularly love is that there's this huge push right now in, you know, professional development and teacher training programs for project-based learning, and here you are being successful at it. You know, 15, 20 years ago I'm assuming that's the timeline I could be- wrong, you know you. You have been successful with this long before it became a standard in the classrooms or a push in the classrooms, and that's the thing I love most about teaching is being innovative and figuring out the the most interesting way to teach a subject. So, like physics is one of my favorite subjects. I talk about how physics is the only science class in high school that I liked with my own children, so my sons in physics this year and I'm like, yes, finally, like you, get to do the thing that I really loved about science. And it's always fascinating to me because I think about physics when it comes to buildings and I used to work at Disneyland because I grew up in Southern California and so I could talk about physics when it comes to, you know, building rides and animatronics and all of these things. And it's so fascinating because I think that if you phrase the question in the right way, you will get so many people engaged in. You know that standard of if a train leaves San Diego going this speed at whatever, and then another one leaves New York going this speed and it just that's not it, that's not where it's at. But if you talked about, like this roller coaster casting, keep momentum up this hill and get people all the way to this next recharging spot, like what do they need to do to do that? You're going to get that kind of engagement from your students and I think it's so fun that you kind of were on the forefront of bringing this into classrooms, at least to your school, and so I think that is so cool.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 9:10

Oh, you're so welcome. If you don't mind, can we take a trip back in time? Sure, Before the interview we talked a little bit and you had mentioned that you were very, very closeted as a young child and I imagine that the times because I know what things, what times were like for me in the 90s and why I was closeted that it was much more intense. So can you talk a little bit about your childhood and your own journey to becoming the wonderful person you are today?

Speaker 2: 9:43

Well, wonderful person. Yes, well, I grew up in a Catholic family and I was the oldest of six children and you know I was thinking about this today, how, how almost asexual my mother and father were. And when I look at the history, when I got to understand my father's history and then a little bit of what my mother went through and some of the some of the large family issues that they had, I got a chance to understand a little bit. I had no idea there was just no template to build from. I had no other older brother or sister to look at, so everything was kind of a first. But from a sexuality standpoint and an identity standpoint, there was very little that I was aware of and that was actually brought to me. You know, I it seemed like I always stumbled on things and one of those things I knew I was different and unique. I knew at six, seven years old there was something different about me. I didn't really understand what exactly, but I didn't. There was no word for it. I didn't feel quite like a boy. I used to dream of being a girl every evening, every night, and wake up kind of disappointed that I wasn't, and you know, but have fantasies and all kinds of weird things that I kind of felt like I pushed down from being in a Latino macho cultural, that whole familial thing. It was very like we didn't talk about those things that were outside of the box. So I remember, 11 years old I'm sitting in the living room A commercial comes on for the Christine Jorgensen story, who was the first trans person big time in the early 50s, went to Europe, had all kinds of surgeries, then came back to the United States and was an immediate celebrity and they were making a movie.

Speaker 1: 12:32

She's like coming back, like she's going to IRL again right now, yeah, so I love that you're talking about this very timely considering so she's popping up on my feed.

Speaker 2: 12:45

Yes, yes. So I'm sitting there and this commercial comes on and it's like that's me and it was just like one of those moments where I knew that this was possible. But how I got, how I get there and what goes on in my life? It was again one of those moments where it was just a big light bulb went on. But what do I do about this? I'm 11 years old, in a world where there's no words, there's no environment for that to flourish, and so, being what it was, I kind of pushed it down and just kind of went on with my life. So, from a position of really being out and aware, I knew that there was something different. There was no terminology really to understand. I knew, I identified with that, how I was going to get there and what was going to happen and how this evolved. I had no clue and really, from just living, I just thought, oh well, I'll just do. I was always one of those kids that I was never a big rule breaker. Whatever mom and dad said, that's what I did. And so I grew up. I did well in school, went to college, I studied psychology and music there were inklings at that time and college that something was going on because I identify as bisexual. One of the first roommates I had was gay and I started having dreams about him and so there were things that, like I was aware of that, were going on with me. I was really not willing to talk about her in that too, and so, very closeted, I met this girl in college at work. We really, really liked her. We hit it off. He was everything I thought I wanted and a mate, and so we got married, had three kids, but really from the initial point of that relationship things started to break down and I think the first thing that I realized is okay, I got to get some help and I started going to therapy and I kind of realized something is happening with me. I opened up to the counselor hey, look, I've been having a lot of same-sex dreams and I've had these thoughts that I'm not the right gender. I always feel like there's some femininity thing going on with me, and at that time I was really trying to save a marriage. So she said well, look, it sounds like this is kind of a demonic thing that might happen spiritually. So I have a prayer meeting that I'd like you to go to, and really that was like she was the professional. Okay, I'll do that, I'll do anything to see if I can get rid of these feelings. And so that kind of really was, in a nutshell, kind of how this trajectory went for me. I'd come to a realization and there would be kind of a turn where I'd find myself moving farther and farther away from the things that were really part of me. So I went through these prayer meetings and things didn't really work out, but it was kind of like, well, I don't really want to own this, so just won't talk about it and continue my therapy and blah, blah, blah blah. And so throughout school and throughout my teaching career, for the most part I was aware I would have these bouts where I would act out, take weekends and do things and go off. There was a wonderful little club in the Valley called the Queen Mary and it's where all the trans girls hung out and I don't know if you heard of it but I have not. I was about 38 years old and I started to kind of really struggle with my dysphoria and all this stuff and I was in a counseling session and she had worked through some hypnosis stuff with me and out came a lot of these things that I had buried. And so at that time there was a therapist who had just opened the LA Gender Center in West LA and I went to see her and we started dealing with all these issues and then it was kind of the first time that my world really opened up. I started to deal with my attraction to men. I started to deal with my gender issues or struggles and what I wanted to do about those and how I felt. And so at that time I saw her for about a year and then decided I was going to I was working at Sun Valley Middle School in the San Fernando Valley as a sixth grade teacher and decided I was going to transition medically transition. And at that time again, like today you know, I go to my family doctor who then gave me an endocrinologist within my medical group who works with trans patients, and you know, it's just this whole thing, there's whole awareness. It's amazing, but at that time I walked in the back door of this endocrinologist who said you know, I can make you look like this. I'll give you a shot. No blood tests, no, nothing, you know. Anyway, I took a. He gave me a shot. I was happy, but my family was splintered and falling apart. I can't. This large Catholic family my brothers and sister and my mom and dad were just. They were really struggling and I had three young kids and my wife and she was really struggling. It was just a mess and after about four months I just was like I can't do this, so I stopped and but the cat was kind of out of the bag for me and it was just very apparent that, for me at least, that dynamic really changed my outlook in terms of how I looked and how I dealt with students, which you know. For a long, long time, I have to tell you, I was very homophobic and very transphobic myself, so I don't know that I was the most accepting person. I can't recall a time when I saw somebody who was, I thought might be gay or identified as gay or you know their, maybe their gender issues were kind of out front and you could kind of look at them and say, hey, you know everything okay, or talk to them about what was going on. That kind of wasn't anything that I wanted to deal with, but after that whole situation for me it opened really my eyes to a whole new world and I think that's really propelled me to become a counselor. And one of the things that happened right away as soon as I became a counselor was I dealt with an intersex student who was really struggling. They identified as female, but they looked male, and so I had to create this whole program for the teachers to help them, and the kid was really struggling. They would have bouts where they would just like fly off the handle and really struggle with the kids and we got this whole program together and it really gave me a good foundation for understanding complexity and compassion and empathy and moving to this place that I had never been. And as I started to do that, I think the other things that started to open up within me were I identify with this, I'm aware of this. How do I make this more a part of me, having a family where the kids are growing up and things like that. There wasn't a whole lot of room, but certainly in school I was able to really help those kids and that gave me a sense of well-being. So that's kind of like it in a nutshell. It wasn't until 62, the age of 62, when I thought, well, it was really COVID. Covid, kind of like, brought us to this place and I think there was a point where I had separated from my wife and there were some things going on and I just realized it's now or never. And so I started talking with a therapist. I called my family doctor. I said hey, you know, this has been going on for a long while. She said why didn't you say anything to me? Let's help you and get you started. And so I started seeing an endocrinologist and the next thing I knew I was medically transitioning at 62 years old.

Speaker 1: 24:31

So that's amazing, I mean because there's this element where it's like you've lived your life this way, I'm just not going to change it, or you can live the rest of your life, happy and who you want to be, and I love that you took that step in that route, because I feel like society is very good at telling us like you can ignore that one thing, or you've gone without it this long, why does it matter? So I really love that, even though it was later in life, that you were able to like really own who you are and make that choice for yourself. There are a couple things that you touched on that I kind of want to go back and like talk a little bit about the first. I love introducing new terminology for people. If we don't talk about it on the podcast, I also like to give some information. So you talked about working with an intersex student and for those of you who are unaware of what that means, it's the I in LGBTQIA. And it means that a person is born with both the male and female sex organs in some way, shape or form, and oftentimes, especially back in the time period that you're talking about, and when I was younger and even up until like the early 2000s, doctors would not give parents a choice. It was that you have to either choose a gender or the doctor would perform a surgery on a child and not tell the parent, and just tell them that this is your daughter or this is your son after performing a surgery and they would basically assign a sex, even though that person was both really. And when I was younger it was called like hermaphroditism, but it's not really like. Intersex is a much better term, but to make a connection for people who might know that other terminology. And so nowadays there are more people who are being born intersex, where their parents and the doctors are like great, we're going to see what happens and we just need to have honest conversations with this child as they grow and then the child can tell us you know, this is how I feel before any kind of physical thing is done. Side note, that's what drives me crazy when people are like oh, teachers are programming children and like castrating, like chemically castrating boys and whatnot, and I'm like yo legit doctors were castrating boys and making them become girls because that was the easier surgery, by the way.

Speaker 2: 27:22

That's right.

Speaker 1: 27:24

And it was okay because it conformed to a gender binary and to what people expected, and so one that drives me crazy. The other thing that I found really interesting is just I can't imagine going like transitioning into education, having three children, being married and then also starting like trying to start your gender journey, and I just think that is so much. And you were doing that at my age so I'll be 39 soon and the fact that all of that was going on and I'm just thinking like even who I am now, where you know I'm approaching 40, we all think that we've matured. I would be mind boggled on how to handle that situation, and so I would likely be in the same situation in the same time period. I mean, I also had my COVID journey and discovered my non binary queer identity during COVID, and I think it's because of the changes in society. But if I had had the same kind of struggle at my age 20 years ago, I'll even know how I would have handled it, and so I just like there's so much packed into that story there's a whole other bit about like backdoor and endocrinology, and like there are horror stories of trans women who like die from shots that were just kind of like garbage being pumped into these women they wanted to fuel and see their bodies the way that they wanted to during the 80s and 90s, and it's just poor of like, so so many things you were talking about. I'm just like so happy that you're here. I am too, because there's so many horror stories From that time period.

Speaker 2: 29:30

It's just like yeah, I just got my brain going.

Speaker 1: 29:34

I was like going through queer history, as you were just thinking about like oh. I checkmarks didn't hit exactly. Gosh, that would have been hard.

Speaker 2: 29:46

Yes, I had a couple of girlfriends who, you know, nobody could afford or they didn't have insurance here in the United States it was way too expensive. And then there was a wait time. There were only a few doctors who were doing certain surgeries and so you had to wait, wait, wait. And so these girls were like I got to get this done now I have the money, and so they would fly to Indonesia or the Philippines or wherever I don't know these Asian countries where they were able to get these gender operations, gender affirming operations, surgeries done for cheaper. They'd come back and then they'd have complications and they're stuck and it was absolutely horrid. It was the worst. I'll never forget those times, those days and some of the girls and what they had to go through, I mean we're talking like literally their boobs would turn to stone some day.

Speaker 1: 30:56

Or if they had blood injections, like the chemicals being used would like turn to stones and then just like put pressure on everything, like wow, and being in Southern California, I know so many people like even just like weight loss surgery, I'm just going to drive down to Tijuana and I'm going to get it done there because it's so much cheaper and faster or whatever the situation, and I'm just like gosh, like I'm happy for the people it worked out for, but I've heard so many horror stories of people that it hasn't, because they didn't make the right choice of doctor when they went there, because there are some very legitimate and very fantastic medical professionals on the Mexican border, but not all of them, and you really have to be diligent when you're doing that search, because you don't want to end up stuck with a medical issue in no way and no one to see. So, like gosh, our history is just so fraught with this.

Speaker 2: 31:56

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 31:59

So you transitioned. How was it for you like transitioning and being a school counselor, Like what was that experience like? Because I can't imagine transitioning in like the public eye. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 32:17

Well, I and I was thinking to myself you know, I actually retired last June, but I was thinking to myself, okay, I'll retire, I won't have to, I'm not going to really come out at school. But the changes were kind of really for me it was just kind of like, and I remember right when I started transitioning, the medical transition- earlier it was kind of like wow, okay, everything's really changing quite dramatically here. How am I going to get through this without letting anybody know? And so the teachers would ask me, like, is everything okay with you, are you okay? And because I was growing long hair and my body was kind of changing and I was wearing more kind of androgynous clothing to school, a couple of teachers told me after I came out they were like we were waiting for you, you know, don't you think that's?

Speaker 1: 33:27

great.

Speaker 2: 33:27

Thank you. But as soon as I transitioned, as soon as I came out, the kids were unbelievable. I'll never forget it. They were just so wonderful. They would come up to me and you know, some of them would say I don't want to offend you, but what are your pronouns and what would you like to be called? And I mean they were just so gracious and generous and loving. I have a number of letters that I received from students. I was doing a permeation group at that time and I was the facilitator of the GSA Club and so there were a number of letters that I got from students that were like you know, you help me come out. And I didn't know that I could do this, but your courage helped me to move to a different place. And I mean so many tears and it was amazing, amazing. So I was grateful, and it still am. I sub now with L-A-U-S-D and there are times when I'm in a class and the kids might be questioning a little bit. It's usually not with the kindergartners or the first graders, but when you get into fifth or sixth grade they're kind of like hey, miss, are you gay? And I'll just say I'm transgender female and then they'll say, oh, oh well, I'm lesbian or I'm gay or I'm trans or I'm non-binary. It's remarkable what happens when you're in these environments, so, and you don't have to say anything about anything, it's just like I'm trans, oh I'm, and so there's this kind of camaraderie that takes place and community, and I think kids start to feel like. I remember one class they were like we've never met anybody transgender before You're the first one, and to me it was just like, oh, okay, well, so it is an adventure you know?

Speaker 1: 36:23

Oh for sure. I think that's really wonderful and I love that, like you're just being authentic and honest allows them to be authentic and honest, and it's remarkable to me just how many young people know that they identify within the community and are comfortable telling somebody that and I think that's just. It is a good sign of the times and something that I hope that we don't lose. Especially, I'm thinking about LA Unified. I did. I grew up I wasn't in LA Unified. I grew up in Whittier, which is a small town right outside.

Speaker 2: 37:03

Oh, I know, Whittier.

Speaker 1: 37:05

Yeah, I always say our claim to fame is Richard Nixon, which I'm not really taking as a claim to fame, but there's a lot right now happening with protesting LA Unified from very, very conservative groups. They're the same ones that are like attacking towns and cities in the South have now come to LA Unified and I was just wondering, like, what has that been like for you to see that kind of happening in your district?

Speaker 2: 37:37

Well, I was in the midst of that. I was there was already a trans teacher at Satakoye Elementary and this principle. I decided they were gonna have a pride day and I guess the parents were upset and things like that. But in April or early. May, I got a call at Satakoye to go and sub and there's nothing on my records that state on trans Somebody has to out me, just say, I think, that person's trans. And so that happened at Satakoye, and the first time that I worked there I didn't know what was going on, but it was apparently these parents. And so the next time that I got a call to go there, I'm in a class and all the kids are being pulled out one after the other and I'm like, oh, and the kids didn't know what was going on there. They're like, oh, we have a tournament today, or blah, blah, blah. And so they're off doing their thing. I was left with two kids and at recess the principal called me into her office and said, hey, there's this really hateful parent group that's out there, and they heard that there was a trans teacher teaching our kids. I am really sorry, I apologize for this, but and so that was kind of the beginning I became kind of like an advocate, just by default. I had no idea that this kind of stuff could go on and parents would like galvanize to create this like craziness. You know, when all I wanted to do was be there, help the kids get to the next grade. You know I'm not sitting there going transgender person. You know it's just so crazy this mindset that they have. So I had a good number of conversations with the equity, diversity, equity and inclusion group at LAUSD. They kind of gathered around me and said hey, we love you, we want you to continue teaching, Don't let this be a burden. We're gonna fight this and we're gonna fight these parents. And so that has been a struggle and they're still very, very active.

Speaker 1: 40:33

I mean, there were protests happening even last week and there are viral videos of the superintendent, you know, going to bet for LGBTQ people saying like this is not our district and this is not who we're going to be. And honestly, we need more superintendents like that.

Speaker 2: 40:51

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 40:53

There's so many across the country, especially where I was in Texas before I moved, where superintendents are just like we just need things to calm down and it will be brushed under the rug and it'll be fine and it's like it's not. It's not gonna calm down because the people who are making a ruckus like it's not the people being accused that are making the ruckus, it's the accusers making the ruckus and they're gonna keep making a ruckus until they get what they want.

Speaker 2: 41:24

Right? Well, yeah, and I'm grateful for people like Jackie Goldberg, who's on the school board, who you know, is part of our community and really is dedicated to making sure that every single student and staff member you know knows that they are welcome and it's not going to be an issue for them. So, you know, it's tragic, but I think for me, what I've seen from just me moving forward is that there's already been created an advocacy for me that I didn't know existed, you know, and it's helped me to gather with a whole bunch of people teachers and educators in our community who are saying no, we're standing up against that and that feels wonderful. That feels wonderful to be a part of. So I'm grateful, you know.

Speaker 1: 42:35

Absolutely. What advice would you give to someone who is entering academia for the first year and they're unsure whether or not they should be authentic with who they are entering the school?

Speaker 2: 42:47

Well, I think fear is. I don't think fear should rule everything, but I think it's very good to be cautious, especially with what's going on now. There are environments and you have to be aware of where you're safe and where you're not. My school community was very safe. My administrators were welcoming, I got a lot of wonderful, wonderful support and affirmations from the teachers and the students, but not every environment is like that. So I think it's really important to be aware, but I also think it's important to understand how many there are out there who are in their corner, and so you're not alone. If there's anything that I can tell a first year teacher who's maybe struggling with coming out in their gender or coming out with sexual orientation or whatever it is, that they're not alone and it's much different than it was 30 years ago. Today there's a whole group of organizations and support that will help them to build on their foundation as an educator, as a queer educator, and that's, I think, the most important thing Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 44:32

I love that idea of using your free year as kind of like a barometer of like getting to know your environment and whatnot, and I think that's really key. I've said it many times on the podcast like you have to do what you need to do to be safe when it comes like. I'm really excited about your perspective here as a counselor, because you really get to work with students on various issues that arise throughout the school year. And so what do you think the academic community whether it's the school community, parents, administrators what can we do to make schools more inclusive for LGBTQ people?

Speaker 2: 45:17

Well, I think that there's a couple of things. I think, first of all, you know the educational environment. I mean, I did a lot of in services with teachers because they didn't know, and if they didn't know, that means that parents don't know, and so I think it's really, really important that we educate our staffs to be aware, so that they can be more compassionate, more empathic, more inclusive in their teaching. And some really struggle, but, you know, lausd had some wonderful mandates, you know, and all I had to do was just hold up a little letter saying, hey, this is not. You know, this is the way it is, so I get it. Maybe you don't agree, but this is what has to happen here. So it's really important to understand and know those things that are in place, those laws and mandates that are in place in terms of where you're teaching. I also think that probably the biggest thing from my perspective as a counselor was always moving from a place of love the heart. The heart speaks, and so if we care that, no matter how much hate is out there and there can be a lot, you know especially for a lot of these kids who are really struggling, families who aren't accepting and really have a lot of questions or concerns, that that always seems to be helpful and helping us move fences, break down walls. If we're coming from a place of kindness and compassion and love and wanting so much to do the right thing, those ideals, that ideology will win out. And so you know, every day today, when I go to the classroom, if it's TK or if it's grade 12, I know that that's the first thing that I'm looking at. Where is my heart in this? Regardless of how they're looking at me, what parents, what kids, how they're looking at me, what is my attitude and how am I exhibiting the best part of myself, you know so.

Speaker 1: 48:07

Absolutely. I love that when I was teacher of the year for my school district, I give a whole speech about how, like, the first thing we need to do is lead with love and really care for the children, because that's really what they need. So at this point in the interview you have the opportunity to ask me a question, so I am all ears. Take it away.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Well, I think you've been able to to interview quite a few educators and am I correct? Around the country.

Speaker 1: 48:46

Yep.

Speaker 2: 48:46

And so where are you seeing the greatest need?

Speaker 1: 48:51

So right now it really is across the board. I have an episode that is unpublished from season one because the educators who were involved in that interview they are a lesbian couple and they interviewed together they were targeted by a conservative group and that was up in Indiana. And at the same time I'm seeing that same kind of tactic happening in Florida and Texas and Tennessee and Mississippi. Realistically, my personal opinion prior to getting like I have a master's in law and I'm working on a master's in theater, like prior to those things, I was a historian and my thesis was how we are still fighting the civil war, but it has moved from slavery to equality, and that's still racial equality, but now it expands to all the other types of equality gender equality, sexual orientation, disability. This has become the dividing line and unfortunately it's dividing the country in the same dynamic. You've got the southern states that are following suit with that kind of mentality not all of them. We have wonderful people in Georgia who are fighting back. We have wonderful people in Virginia who are like here, here, these laws passed down to us, but our schools districts say, no, we're not going to do that, and the same thing in. Arkansas is happening, like Sarah Huckabee Sanders tried to stop AP African American history and a bunch of schools were like, no, we're gonna offer it, it's important. And so I personally believe that the civil war was so divisive that now we're dealing with the generational trauma of it being passed down and passed down, and passed down and passed down, and I just hope, with all of the wonderful things I see in children, how they're so accepting and they really are looking up for kindness, and really it comes down to the work that we've done in the classroom, where social emotional learning became a focus. And and now it's a bad word according to conservative groups, but the work that we've done with social emotional learning has really created empathetic children. So I'm hoping that we've become the wall that separates that generational trauma and this country will grow in the next couple of decades. But realistically, in my opinion, I see the dividing lines being at the moment, republican, democratic, yeah, but in reality it's the North South mentality that existed from the Civil War. So this is again unsolicited, non historian opinion, just somebody who likes history and went into theater instead. But the the things that I've seen something scare me because they are happening in LA, right, these things are happening in. LA. It's happening in Chino Hills, which is right down the street from where I grew up right, and it's happening in Sacramento. So, like California is being hit with it, but overwhelmingly, I see that the biggest push and the most unsafe environments are showing up in Southern states or Republican government states, and so it's an unfortunate thing because I honestly like would love for this two party system to disappear, since we're supposed to have, like, the options and I don't know how we get there. But I just I worry that if we continue on this same path, like it's not that we're going to fight another Civil War, it's that the one that we fought never ended. It just moved to politics and then it moved to legislation and now the Supreme Court and and it's coming back to physical battle grounds, especially for the trans community, because trans women, especially trans women of color, are being targeted constantly and people are genuinely dying. It is a war, not just a war of words. There was a video I saw the other day of Ron DeSantis speaking to a delegation, like in Florida, and he was talking about how law or like crime has gone down, but the crime statistics only included really predominantly white neighborhoods and people were shouting about how he has made it okay for black people to be hunted down in that state and and that is a reality and something that I think that we all need to focus on and if you're people who sit back and go, well, that's happening in Florida, it's not going to happen here. You need to open up your eyes. It's happening everywhere. I mean, whether or not it's anti Semitism, whether or not it's racism, it's queer phobia, like people are dying or being heard everywhere, like Tahoe, a straight white woman was killed just for having a pride flag.

Speaker 2: 54:27

Right.

Speaker 1: 54:29

So I feel like our country is in crisis when it comes to this issue and I'm not willing to say that it's a specific location. You know, I do feel it all over. I can tell you that where that, where the politics are controlled by a conservative group, it is more aggressively happening. But then we see things like this happening in other other states as well. So it's been, it's been interesting, it's been, it's been wonderful to listen to other people's stories and it's also been scary, like when I woke up to an email saying like I need you to take the podcast down. Oh my god, oh my god, these things are happening and my, my, my, my heart is going like I need these people to be safe. I need them to continue to have their livelihood, because this place is supposed to be for us to share and to be able to connect with other people. And I get messages like that on social media like I'm so happy this exists, because I really felt like I was alone, I was the one queer teacher and I think that's been probably the most rewarding things is those messages and it's like in my brain, like the business side of me is going could you leave a review? And in my heart I'm going I'm just so glad that you left this message and that's the one that I sent to them. I'm just so glad that you found this space, because I just want people to know that, one, we're here, we're not going anywhere, and two, just because you're trying to quiet us doesn't mean that we can't speak up, and I hope that this podcast is a microphone, a megaphone for our community to speak up and not let our voices go quietly into the night, as it were.

Speaker 2: 56:17

Absolutely, absolutely. It's wonderful to hear that, and it's great to see young people like yourself really focusing on that, because we do need it to continue. We need people like you out there that are continuing to say, no, I'm not going anywhere, and I know this is really, really difficult, but to allow our voices to be heard is essential. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for doing this.

Speaker 1: 56:51

Thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it and I hope that you all enjoyed this episode. I love that we got to track down a little bit of queer history and and that you were so vulnerable and sharing some of your stories because, as I mentioned, some of those things are horror stories that I've heard of in the past. So I'm just so happy to have gotten a chance to talk with you.

Speaker 2: 57:14

Thank you, Brian.

Speaker 1: 57:15

You're so welcome. Everybody. Have a great day. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Teaching While Queer. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, make sure to subscribe, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, leave a review, and that would help out tremendously. You can also support the podcast by going to wwwteachingwhilequeercom and hit support the show. Thanks so much and have a great day.